WARNING - Betfair account hacked / fraud

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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andyfuller
Posts: 4619
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm

Back with one account lay with the other. Money goes to dodgy account they then withdraw it using their own details into their own bank account.

They should use drop down menus for the idea you put forward as well so it is a mouse click rather than you still pressing a key.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Given the data theft that occured, I think it's time for Betfair to beef up security.

These cases seem to be occuring with more frequency. I wonder whether if there could be a system issue?
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to75ne
Posts: 2413
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Im pessimistic about the trader getting his 6 ½ k back.
I was reimbursed 30 odd quid, and betfair only refunded me because it was a small amount relative to what I trade with, and my history/behavior showed that after a trading session I always empty it and just leave in 20 to 50 pounds. Plus my thief used it up on £3ish pound bets in the casino, again my history showed that I had never previously placed a bet in the casino or exchange games.


I hope he/she gets their money refunded but betfair were quite adamant they my refund would be a one off. If it happened again irrespective of what amount was left in the account, what ip address/addresses it was accessed from, they would deem it to be my responsibility/fault.
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

I'm familiar with the detail of this case and it is clearly outright fraud, so I will be really interested in Betfair's response. I'll update people as it unfolds.

If the response is not positive then I think the time will have come to campaign for much better security at Betfair, especially in light of the huge security breach; which Betfair have never fully explained or apoligised for.
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Dabbla
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:50 pm

chatty gambler has started a Petition for a Betfair Security Token on the BF forum.
http://community.betfair.com/general_be ... -is-needed

You never know they might listen.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I think Betfair are in a slight fix in that they need to make it easy for people to place bets but maybe an opt in for higher security should be allowed for bigger accounts. With PC3, the security breach and these sort of stories I only keep minimal funds in my account now. If they had better security I would feel comfortable with funding my account with more money. Security just needs to be a lot tighter.

It has crossed my mind that this specific issue could be a system error? Can't pre-judge though until Betfair come back which I doubt is going to happen quickly on a Friday evening.

I guess one of the issues that Betfair have is people who lose money may claim to be defrauded to avoid a loss. But that would be solved if they had better security.
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LeTiss
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Euler wrote: I guess one of the issues that Betfair have is people who lose money may claim to be defrauded to avoid a loss. But that would be solved if they had better security.
That may well be so, but surely they can see money has been withdrawn to a different card number.

If the money has been transferred to another wallet, there must be a trace of that surely?

If BF have systems sophisticated enough to link accounts with similar strategies, then they must be able to recognise a totally different betting pattern to normal when these frauds are being reported
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I think the fraudsters will be more subtle than that. They could spread the counter transaction across a number of different accounts and repatriate money that way. It would be harder to detect.

It seems clear now that people are defrauding people on Betfair by emptying their accounts, so the onus is on Betfair to stop that happening. If stories like this appear in the telegraph along side the highlighting of the broader security issue, Betfair will have a big problem on their hands.
andyfuller
Posts: 4619
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm

You would think these people doing it are not exactly big cyber criminals if they are wasting their time going after a few thousand? Though I guess it could be part of a much bigger scheme.

The chances of them actually being caught is near minimal I would think. I was watching a program not that long ago and the difficulties involved in cross border policing was massive and they were struggling going after guys making millions through cyber crime.
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Don't forget that a few thousand could be the average salary in the part of the world where the fraudster lives. :)

And if you go after small amounts, you might remain undetected, whereas if you target big amounts, there's a greater risk of consequences (and not just from the law!).

Jeff
andyfuller wrote:You would think these people doing it are not exactly big cyber criminals if they are wasting their time going after a few thousand?
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Betfair would seemingly go to extraordinary lengths to collect possible charges that can be levied, so I look forward to seeing them put even more effort into using the same process to stop outright fraud. They already claim to have the technology to analyse in detail related activity so it should be fairly easy I would think.
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Quite - If Betfair puy the same effort into protecting their customers as they did into extracting every penny possible from them, their security would be like Fort Knox! :lol:

Jeff
Euler wrote:Betfair would seemingly go to extraordinary lengths to collect possible charges
aleksandar
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:50 pm

Does anyone of you know what system could they use to transfer money between accounts? The best I can think of is to use some sort of martingale. But in the long run they can't do anything with it.
poklius
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:58 am

Betfair poker is easiest way to transfer money, no need for fake accounts or complicated systems, just some very bad calls :)
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I'm sorry to say but this individual has been given the cold shoulder by Betfair. So their account is wiped out. Betfair admit that they did not place the bets but refuse to do anything about it. I'm shocked.

How can they link activity for the purposes of charging then deduct large sums of money retrospectively without providing proof, but not bother when somebody is defrauded is shocking, totally shocking. It is time for them to introduce much tighter security, much tighter.

I suggest if you have a Betfair account you keep only the absolute minimum in your account and change your passwords regularly. That didn't help this person, so you have to wonder if there is a system issue with Betfair or a deeper security issue. Else how can somebody at the first attempt log onto somebodies account and clean them out?
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