discipline

[gutuami]

people lose their discipline when they encounter a loss. Usually this changes state of mind and people enter in so called fight or flight mode as losses are perceived as threat to survival. The other thing is your physical state which depends on sleep, drink and food and thus affecting your concentration. there is an interesting device called heart rate monitor which due to technology evolved a lot in recent years. Now it is possible to measure your HRV at home with your phone and hr monitor such a polar h7 for example. it was discovered that variability of changes of the time intervals between successive heart beats reveals your state for the day. And should be measured first thing in the morning. Anyway, discipline in trading should be regarded as a muscle that is possible to train only when you face a critical situation which in most cases is a loss.

[JPK65]

Don't trade when you are depressed. I suffer from bouts of depression and I was on a real downer last week. To make matters worse I had a disastrous week's trading. Looking back, everything I learned went out the window and it looks like I wanted to lose.

[Derek27]

I agree with trader44, complacency after a long winning run is one of my problems. You cannot keep up the level of disipline that resulted in the long winning run if you ever get to the stage when you take it for granted that you are going to make money trading.

I drink in the evenings when trading on American racing, without any problem (smaller stakes), but since I started arbing on US racing I came quite close to a major (probably alcohol induced) disaster when I backed a horse with a bookie and laid the wrong horse. Luckily I realised the mistake and traded out for a small loss.

Another problem I've had on occasions, and I'm embarrassed to admit it, is trading out of frustration. For example, laying a horse, backing it for a loss to close trade, and then without fully thinking it through, immediately trading it again to try to recover the one or two ticks.

I can't remember where I read it, but one trader recommended keeping a diary of all your mistakes. He found that when you're entering the same mistakes again and again in the diary it becomes embarrassing and makes you feel the idiot that you are, which should stick in your memory when trading.

At the end of the day, trading is like speed chess - it doesn't matter how good you are at chess, you will make mistakes when making quick decisions. I think the key is to identify your common errors that result in losing markets, and not just eliminate them, but to make it second nature to avoid them.

[trader44]

nd I'm embarrassed to admit it, is trading out of frustration. For example, laying a horse, backing it for a loss to close trade, and then without fully thinking it through, immediately trading it again to try to recover the one or two ticks.

done that loads of times derek .in all honesty i have done some mental trades when i think back on it lol.
heres on of them .
i had £900 in betfair i backed a front runner in ireland at 6 it didnt shorten at all and started going backwards very quickly there was no way i was taking a full stake loss £20 so i laid it back massive for £20 to get my stake out as soon as i caught the price it turned into pegasus and found a gap on the inside and won .i done £500 in and thought i was going to pass out haha well it felt like that at the time .
i read somewhere that trading in running you have between 3-5 seconds to make decisions so you lay or back and get out within -5 seconds it might be shorter depending on your strategy and you do this over and over again throughout the day . i cant think of many jobs where you have to be that focused and making decisions so quickly ,maybe there are but cant think of many

[trader44]

maybe someone else would like to amuse us with some of their stupid trades when starting out ie i arent taking a loss on this one and BOOM it all goes pear shaped

[SeaHorseRacing]

I allowed an £8 loss turn into a £400 bank buster all because I sat on nice green position too long it turn into a red on the greyhounds.

It was that loss in December why I am earning a living from Trading. I guess for those who overcome poor discipline will eventually get that one that sticks forever.
Hard work and your discipline will change.

The less time I spend on this forum the better my results are... some small changes make all the difference.

[Derek27]

maybe someone else would like to amuse us with some of their stupid trades when starting out ie i arent taking a loss on this one and BOOM it all goes pear shaped

When I first started trading I tried to have £2 on Twice Over in the 2008 Derby antepost market at 1000. I accidentally entered £1000 at 2.00. Fortunately I only had £50 in my account at the time, so no damage done, but lesson learnt and mistake never repeated.

My biggest loss was about £350, which resulted from oversleeping and failing to close a trade I placed the previous night. When I logged on to Betfair and realised the loss, I just thought to myself that if I can't get out of bed by 2 0'Clock on a Sunday afternoon, not only was it bound to happen eventually, I actually felt I deserved to lose that money!

Undisciplined traders will never win on the exchange, but getting up at 2:00pm and forgetting about an open trade takes discipline to a whole new level.

[trader44]

Undisciplined traders will never win on the exchange, but getting up at 2:00pm and forgetting about an open trade takes discipline to a whole new level

absolute classic

[ruthlessimon]

lol, I misread that. I thought the discipline was to literally "get up at 2pm" I must say after some late nights, it is pretty tempting to only trade the evening markets!

[ruthlessimon]

LOL, no turns out I did read it right. . Although realising I've left a position open would certainly wake me up pretty quick; might have to trade in pyjamas & no time for a shower with only 10min gaps! I can relate though

[Derek27]

I gave up evening trading on tomorrow's racing a long time ago - complete waste of time, you get your money on, can't close your trade because everybody's gone to bed and nothing's moving, and then you wait till tomorrow and hope for the best.

But the photo that Ruthlessimon posted has just reminded me of the days when I'd open a trade in the evening, waste a couple of hours watching nothing happed in the market, and then go to bed with my smartphone by my bedside to check on my trade, should I wake up in the middle of the night.

[trader44]

then go to bed with my smartphone by my bedside to check on my trade, should I wake up in the middle of the night

wow thats dedication haha.

i remember years ago signing up to a laying service and going on holiday to the lakes and i couldnt bear the thought of missing a day of getting them on " not realising missing 2 weeks doesnt make any difference whatsoever in the overall scheme of things " so i spent most mornings driving to a computer shop/internet cafe to get my lays on and it was early days of internet so it was more stress than enough and then constantly trying to get the results on my phone later in the day ..and guess what it was a poor 2 weeks for the lays

[Derek27]

Going further back to when I was a teenager, long before the age of the internet, I remember placing a 50 pence bet on a horse, and later going into a phone box dialing 168 to get the racing results. It cost me 90 pence, just to find out that my 50 pence bet had lost. It was probably near odds-on, so even if it had won I would have made a loss !

[LeTiss]

Going further back to when I was a teenager, long before the age of the internet, I remember placing a 50 pence bet on a horse, and later going into a phone box dialing 168 to get the racing results. It cost me 90 pence, just to find out that my 50 pence bet had lost. It was probably near odds-on, so even if it had won I would have made a loss !

That reminds me of the Channel 4 series 'The Gambler' with the genius Jonathan Rendall

[stueytrader]

I agree with trader44, complacency after a long winning run is one of my problems. You cannot keep up the level of disipline that resulted in the long winning run if you ever get to the stage when you take it for granted that you are going to make money trading.

Another problem I've had on occasions, and I'm embarrassed to admit it, is trading out of frustration. For example, laying a horse, backing it for a loss to close trade, and then without fully thinking it through, immediately trading it again to try to recover the one or two ticks.

Had both of those two as key mistakes - long winning runs can be as dangerous as long losing ones for mental stability sometimes. That can be an odd one to spot though, as you feel fine and suddenly find yourself 'chasing your winnings' like a maniac!

The second one is pure 'anger/revenge trading' - definitely to avoid at all costs.