SNIPERS

[convoysur-2]

Hi Stephen .
yes the smaller markets or as you say 15 mins out are a no go for me at the moment ,its just crazy ,ive just read on here on another trend alot of people are finding the same thing today,as regards the email from betfair to your collegue ,there is only one thing to read out of that .
Marc

[Ferru123]

Hi Steven

Have you put the videos on YouTube? If so, can you give us the link please?

Thanks

Jeff

but what i feel is happening at the moment is that some entities (could even be betfair themselves) have the ability to self match themselves so they can create a false arena to play in and move through their own money that is sat in queues whilst making it look like it is matched money. I have lots of videos highlighting this

[Alpha322]

I hate snipers.
those people who wait like a poison snake waiting for its prey ,those people who wait for victims to put there money in the market and they take it and move the market to lay it off,im sick of them, like school bullies they use there strength to push people around ,there strength is the money ,i hope i win the lottery soon ,just so i can take there money and mess them around, i dont think its fair play,??
marc

Marc just build your bank like i did, the bigger it gets then you can push prices at certain points in the markets like they can, after all evereyone is out to do the same thing build data money

[Zenyatta]

Convoysur

I decided to stop trading and become a layer and a backer.I now select a horse that I want to back or lay,decide on the odds that I feel are value,then I wait patiently for the traders to move the odds in my favour.When they do,I place my bet.If they move the odds against me,no matter,there's lots of other races.
74.5

Yes, value trading is the only way to beat the manipulators, unfortunately knowing which horses are value requires a very high skill level (i.e. detailed knowledge of UK horse racing).

These manipulators really are sad folks. They aren't stupid though, lets give them that. Shortly after trying to push the price against their mark, they usually quickly scuttle away again like the cockroaches they are when they see their intended victim isn't backing down.

[Ferru123]

Yes, value trading is the only way to beat the manipulators, unfortunately knowing which horses are value requires a very high skill level (i.e. detailed knowledge of UK horse racing).

That's patently untrue. I know pro traders who happily admit that they know nothing about the horses they are trading, and work solely from the information in the ladders and on the charts...

Jeff

[convoysur-2]

im finding that in the smaller markets where the cockroaches seems to be an infestation of these cockroaches ,especially in the late night football markets ,brazil ,argentina and chile ,i love messing with them ,if you dutch for small steaks say 100 per time ,it confuses them because your not not trying to get matched on the other side ,and the greedy little cockroaches take the money and run off with it ,and move things about seems like there saying ,ok now ive stolen this where will i hide it,and the dutcher gets matched ,its all turned out to be good fun...
Marc

[JollyGreen]

Yes, value trading is the only way to beat the manipulators, unfortunately knowing which horses are value requires a very high skill level (i.e. detailed knowledge of UK horse racing).

That's patently untrue. I know pro traders who happily admit that they know nothing about the horses they are trading, and work solely from the information in the ladders and on the charts...

Jeff

Jeff

I think Zenyatta was talking more from a betting point of view as trading is not their chosen method. If you have an idea about the correct price based on form etc then you are less likely to be worried about manipulators and their effect on the market.

Personally I would rather embrace their shenanigans and aim to profit from them when I am trading. It generally evens out over time so it's not worth stressing about.

If I am backing or laying a horse based on my assessment of the form then I am not concerned about the price. If I am laying and it gets smashed in price then I am happy to lay it for more at lower prices. If I am backing and it gets forced out then I am happy to back more at higher prices.

I know plenty of players who lay a horse but then close their position and carry a loss because the price shortens. That's crazy to me because what is the point of researching the form, race and market only to exit when it moves against your opinion.

Just my 2 penny's worth!

JG

[runningman]

I hate snipers.
those people who wait like a poison snake waiting for its prey ,those people who wait for victims to put there money in the market and they take it and move the market to lay it off,im sick of them, like school bullies they use there strength to push people around ,there strength is the money ,i hope i win the lottery soon ,just so i can take there money and mess them around, i dont think its fair play,??
marc

Hey Convoysur

I disagree with the opening statement of the thread. Snipers (manipulators) are just using a strategy the same as every other trader does. I think it can be very dangerous to single these guys out as it will be more personal when a trade goes against you. The first rule of trading is to have no emotions and accept that the market is always right no matter what happens.

Manipulators employ their strategys when certain criteria are met and the majority are fairly easy to spot. Your mission is to find out why they do what they do and when!! Then you will have a decent edge over them.

I have been trading the greyhound markets for some time and am doing really well in them now. Because of the low volume, manipulation is very easy to spot and so I have had some great practice in dealing with it, I also practice manipulation myself and am getting some very decent results

Moral of the story is never look at market movement with emotion!! either positive or negative!! They move how they move and are always correct, accept that and good luck

[superfrank]

i agree that manipulation creates great opportunities for value traders (they've probably never had it so good).

things have got more difficult for pure price action traders imho, although i've always been very sceptical of WoM having seen a spoofer trade first hand.

i wonder if some of these manipulation tactics have now been automated by some bright spark (the flashing spoofer is obviously an automated strategy, but i think there are others now).

one of the tactics i see more and more of is the sustained and relentless backing of front runners (not just very near the off as in the past, but from several mins out turning it into a gamble of sorts). i guess this is a relatively safe strategy as the price will more than likely contract early in-play.

[Zenyatta]

I know plenty of players who lay a horse but then close their position and carry a loss because the price shortens. That's crazy to me because what is the point of researching the form, race and market only to exit when it moves against your opinion.

Just my 2 penny's worth!

JG

Yeah, Jolly, I was really guilty of this, and I believe it's what stopped me being successful for so long. My attempts to apply stop-loss was a complete disaster (especially the automated stop-loss), and hence I don't stop-out any more in most cases. If only I'd trusted myself from he start, ignored the market, and simply never exited until the off, the data shows I'd have made a ton of money instead of a loss. I've learned a long and painful lesson, and will certainly heed your advise from now on.