Racing this month

[Ferru123]

Do these new market characteristics present opportunities to traders, if they adapt their techniques, or do they simply make the market untradable?

For example, if the market is jumping about like a flea on acid, would widening your stop be a good way of avoiding taking a loss every 5 seconds?

Jeff

[andyfuller]

I got majorly screwed on an sp order yesterday! whatevr the selection was was trading at 3.5 most of the pre market. I had a hefty order getting nibbled at 3.5 and left it as an sp order. Market suspended and came into play and bang sp returned 4.17! Spent the next 2 hours clawing back to 0!!!

Something has changed with the SP. I have not been able to put my finger on it just yet but it is just a matter of getting the data.

[mcfc1981]

it was like this a month or so back then went ok again.
for me its 1 of 2 things betfair in their own markets or bomber manipulating them.

[mugsgame]

Andy,
I'm with you on SP. I don't know wether their is a time delay that lets trades go in to account for a good / bad start or wether it is because there is just no money going into SP, but there is a definite change of last couple of weeks.

[Yantraman]

I am finding it hard to gauge the "real" amount of volume that's on the book. Like Andy says you can be at the front of the queue with 2k behind you and suddenly it disappears and your 2 tick down.

Some of the common reversal points are also being smashed through, perhaps because of the false weight of money. I've posted about this happening before (couple of months ago)- the markets did seem to realign themselves.

There are also some mega trends. I haven't yet worked out how to anticipate them - they often just come from nowhere. I have noticed they often reverse all the way back again. I wonder if there are more layers (and therefore more drifters)when the ground is soft creating some of these trends?? I don't have any stats but maybe some one has?

The soft ground definitely puts the serious punters off.

Frustrating trading, lost a few (lot!) more pens in heated moments (i need to buy shares in BIC)

[Ferru123]

How have things been on Betdaq?

If things have been far better there than on Betfair, then this could be the game changer that finally causes an exodus of traders...

Jeff

[mcfc1981]

betdaq follows betfair so id have thought it would be the same.

[mcfc1981]

betdaq follows betfair so id have thought it would be the same.

[steven1976]

Im glad others are seeing what I've been saying since a long time ago. The easiest way to see the manipulation is around 10s where you would expect much less in real money in my opinion. I believe it started before sports book and actually since last year when 60% came in. I think the people controlling the markets since then are more aggressive and go for every single pound that comes into the market short term.

As i pointed out in the past I contacted betfair and according to my business proposal to them (not horses) they agreed I would be able to liquidates a market and self match myself to attract money. In my opinion, if this iis the case then this is not betting fair.

[Euler]

I know you have this bee in your bonnet about manipulation but you have to accept that it's been going on for some time, you were not the first to talk about and it's been discussed a lot before, have a look at this thread: -

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=770&hilit=farcical

Traders regulary self match their own orders for trading purposes, generally they don't do it to attempt to manipulate the market, but I guess sometimes that may be a side effect.

You have to accept that people are likely to want to manipulate a market but racing is not immune nor the only market where this goes on, or the worst affected. But one thing I have learnt over many years is that the market is the market, is the market. You either put up with it and work in and around it, or you don't participate. Those are the conditions of entry into any market. As long as you are aware of the fiobles, it's up to you to deal with them. I like seeing somebody showing their hand in the market, because that gives me the opportunity to oppose it.

This thread is more concerned with how the markets have changed this month.