Losing Confidence!

We were all new to Bet Angel once. Ask any question you like here and fellow forum members promise not to laugh. Betfair trading made simple.
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Zenyatta wrote: Most find out the hard way that trading is REALLY HARD and this dream is not achieveable without a HELL of a lot of effort and skill.
How do you know this? That's not the impression I get from a very successful pro trader I correspond with... You come out with lots of defeatist statements, but I respectfully put it to you that there isn't much substance behind all of the negativity...

Emotionally, I can see how trading can be very draining, but I would say that to a large extent it boils down to attitude. If you focus too much on what on the line, ie money and ego, you'll probably experience negative emotions, whereas if you just keep your eye on the ball and stay positive, you'll experience a different set of emotions.
Zenyatta wrote:I fear that most guys who try to make a living off Betfair will end up having to use their hands alone in their bedrooms ; (hot chicks dont bang losers) :lol: :lol: :lol:
Is anyone who is unable to make a living from trading on Betfair a loser in your book?

Jeff
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mugsgame
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:41 pm

I make money AND I'm a loser Jeff!

Go figure
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I can confirm that hot chicks don't bang big winners either ;)

Have to say, if I listened to the naysayers I never would have even signed up for Betfair let alone leave a good job to do it full time. When I started doing it, I couldn't find a single sole that agreed with what I was doing. Absolutely everybody thought I was going through a mid life crisis. My former employers thought it was a cover for joining a competitor!

But I have spent most of my life drawing up unrealistic goals and achieving them, so now people say it was inevitable that I would make something of it. When I took the jump it took a bit of soul searching initially to work out if I had actually done the right thing. But in hindsight I had been too worried previously about making big moves because of what could go wrong, when I'd actually been guilty of not seeing what could go right. I learnt life works in both directions. I've actually learnt a massive amount about myself and others on my journey.

I've also seen the positive impact that trading has had on a lot of people, so I've never put anybody off giving something a good go, no matter how hard it appears. It's better to know that you gave it a go and failed, than not at all. I don't think anybody denies that anything worthwhile is hard. It's pretty rare to be presented something on a plate, pre-package ready for you to pluck off at will. So hard work has been the only way I know to make something work.

One thing that has constantly surprised me is the ingenious ways Bet Angel users have found to trade the market. I think there is something to learn from everybody from many different angles. I probably haven't seen them all either. There have been a load of changes over time, so credit to those with longevity as well.

Basically, I don't think people should be put off from trying. Yes, you need to be aware of risks etc and not expect things on a plate but nothing was ever achieved by not trying. That's not a philosophy for trading, but for life in general IMHO.
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

I agree.

If a trade doesn't go your way, you can scratch it, and not give it a moment's thought. And if it goes in your favour, you hang in there. Same with life. :)

I think the problem many people have - and I am certainly guilty of this - is to overthink things, rather than being like a cat waiting to pounce at just the right moment...

Jeff
Euler wrote: Basically, I don't think people should be put off from trying. ... That's not a philosophy for trading, but for life in general IMHO.
Photon
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:14 pm

I started off on this forum asking whether it is possible to earn £100 a day which would make about £30k a year post-tax. There are at least 25 races a day so £4 a race is quite small so asking for £300 a day is not unreasonable. Its just that newbies thought process is not the same as that of successful and experienced trader. It does take a lot of time, patience, bank and perseverance to get to a stage where you can make predictable income.

At the beginning I used to try all sorts of weird and some times completely outragous tactics including outright betting until I started to notice what worked more frequently and what didn't.

I started specialising and then finding my niche. The important thing to bear in mind is that its the execution of strategy/method/approach/tactics that's more important.

It is possible, everything being equal, to make a reasonable living but I wouldn't think about making £100, £300, £1,000 etc. a day but instead try to stay in the game and aim to break even until you start seeing a picture.

Its not easy or quick but it is possible.
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CaerMyrddin
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am

I really sympathise Peter's atittude towards live and I share his view.

I think it's hard to keep such a state of mind all the time, as sometimes you get haunted by doubts or fears, but that's a part of the process. This is one of the most interesting things on my trading journey, the way you dream to achieve this and that, the way you wonder for how long you can do it etc. It's been a tremendous process of learnship about myself most of all.

From a personal point of view, I think most of those who are only atracted by winning the cash are doommed to fail. The thing with the market is that it's an intellectual challenge everyday. There are a lot of opportunities for those who can get them, but it is hard work.

That said, I agree with Mugs. I can't honestly understand how someone spent so much money on this and doesn't know why there are 30k laying at 1.01. It's unprofessional, at least. There is information everywhere about this and much more. I wasn't a pro yet and had read all this forum, along with some others, many blogs and blog's archives and was playing with pennies. People just don't want to do their homework when they should.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6429&p=50801&hilit= ... .01#p50801
rogerlisa
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:09 pm

Back from hols now and was very interested on all replies that this thread has had - good and bad alike - so thankyou. I never thought it was going to be easy and maybe I approached the forum in the wrong way as I justed wanted some clues. Yes I have lost a lot of money trying, but I am lucky that at the moment I can afford to lose this amount on a big learning curve. Thanks again for all responses and I will think small from now on and find what works. Maybe from time to time I will post something and let you know my current losses and get you all fired up again - or maybe, possibly, I may have figured the whole think out and get some of these hot chicks you all mention. Although wife may not like that idea. P.s Whats a bot? just kidding!!!! :lol:
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

rogerlisa wrote:Yes I have lost a lot of money trying
I suggest you try using 2 pound stakes, and your tuition from the market will be far less expensive. :)

Jeff
frustrated
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:10 am

Why not work from 2 to 6 easy hours every day on the uk horses, and aim for £100 a day, to me £700 a week would be a hell of a lot of money. Or the simple way put 20.000 in your betfair account and do long trades on football. Do ity on practise mode is fairly easy with the right timing.
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

frustrated wrote:Why not work from 2 to 6 easy hours every day on the uk horses, and aim for £100 a day, to me £700 a week would be a hell of a lot of money.
Mugsgame will have you if you come out with comments like that! :lol:

Joking aside, if making £100 a day were as easy as falling off a log, more people would be doing it... Don't get me wrong, it can be done, and I know people who make much more than that. But finding a system that works requires thought and experimentation. And even when you do have a winning method, you have to have the discipline to stick with it, which is the undoing of many traders.
frustrated wrote:Or the simple way put 20.000 in your betfair account and do long trades on football. Do ity on practise mode is fairly easy with the right timing.
I'm unclear what you're advocating. What are your entry and exit criteria with this approach?

Jeff
Alpha322
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:45 pm

CaerMyrddin wrote: People just don't want to do their homework when they should.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6429&p=50801&hilit= ... .01#p50801
Top post your very correct.After Peters course i came away and read this forum day after day just getting a feel for what people were talikng about. I read blogs watched the video,s over and over, its taken me 3 years and 6 months to of found a nice edge, there was an earlier post about an edge, i hope that member has found one, but to test a good edge i tested this manually for nearly 2 months, i missed out on a decent size profit, but it works on the live mode well. which i will now collect at te end of the month. But yes trading is hard work and brain power its true only the fittest 5% last or make a living out of it. And yes it is possible to turn over £100, £200 etc a day. Depends on your skill level turning your bankroll over and over without losing to much of it
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mugsgame
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Ferru123 wrote:
frustrated wrote:Why not work from 2 to 6 easy hours every day on the uk horses, and aim for £100 a day, to me £700 a week would be a hell of a lot of money.
Mugsgame will have you if you come out with comments like that! :lol:

Joking aside, if making £100 a day were as easy as falling off a log, more people would be doing it... Don't get me wrong, it can be done, and I know people who make much more than that. But finding a system that works requires thought and experimentation. And even when you do have a winning method, you have to have the discipline to stick with it, which is the undoing of many traders.
frustrated wrote:Or the simple way put 20.000 in your betfair account and do long trades on football. Do ity on practise mode is fairly easy with the right timing.
I'm unclear what you're advocating. What are your entry and exit criteria with this approach?

Jeff
£100 a day? Why stop at that. If you can make £100 why not 200 or 400?. F*** it, make it a grand a day. It's so easy. Everyone does it.
Oh and don't forget to factor the premium charge into that, it doesn't take long to win over £250,000 And aslo don't forget that trading full time turns you into a grumpy old git in no time. Well it did me. :mrgreen:
frustrated
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:10 am

If i had 20.000 i could make £200 a day on long football trades, i have done one a day for the last two months on practise mode with a 5000 balance, i average about £60 a day, and maybe a break even once a week. But my aim at the moment is 70-100 a day from 2 to 6 on the horses, which seems to be working fine,if i can make 100 a day and the comfort level feels right trhis is where i may stay, soon as i save enough i'll do one big long trade a day as well as the horses, i only need to check it say every half hour it's very low risk. Seriously check it out if you start at the right time and get out the right time it's easy, it took me 3 days to suss it, i try and find a 7.55 kick off. For me the hardest thing to work it was how to cover my arse from a big loss on the horses, but after an e mail i recieved from another trader from here it just clicked, he did not tell me his edge but he did mention something he does, i was vey close for weeks i just needed that final tweak, and now i'm 100% sure it's in the bag. The great thing is if the markets change over time it does not matter.
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

What do you mean by long football trades?

Jeff
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

frustrated wrote:now i'm 100% sure it's in the bag.
I hope you're right, but why not trade it using 2 pound stakes for a week? If you're right, you'll be minting it in no time, but if you're wrong then you won't lose too much money.
frustrated wrote:The great thing is if the markets change over time it does not matter.
The markets changing can render any system null and void...

If the markets become as flat as a pancake, you're stuffed if you're a swing trader. If the markets start jumping about all the time like a flea on acid, you're stuffed if you're a one tick scalper...

Jeff
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