Phantom positions? (weird) - Edit now with video

[gazuty]

In the first goalkicker market for the AFL match St Kilda vs Richmond there are no active positions on the Betfair website - http://sports.betfair.com/?ti=61420

And yet, in that same market via the API on betangel there is money available (although it shows $180 at 1.15 against each player on the lay side - which obviously one would take and clean up massively because there is only one possible winning result).

If I endeavor to take that money the lay positions disappear and I am left with all of my positions sitting over on the back side. Fine, no one is going to take my 1.15.

Does this happen while betfair is in set up phase? Why would these strange positions be showing up? Why do those lay positions disappear the moment I try to hit them?

[Euler]

I'd be interested in replicating this or seeing a video with this on.

[gazuty]

Ok. Happening again right now. But unfortunately I am remote and don't have an app to record the iPad screen.

Might see what free screen capture software there is and try and record it in vps.

Ok. Recoded it using screenr in my Vps. But alas I couldn't upload it for some reason from the vps.

This one was really interesting. I had a lay in a 4 unmatched. So the back side was there at 4 and the lay side was at 5, with $23 available. I decided to hit that 5 because it wasn't really material to my overround. And wouldn't you know it, straight away we have an $5 at 5 unmatched on my lay and now 6 with about $10 available on the lay side. I decided to test if that 6 was real. It was not and then I had $5 at 5 and $5 at 6 unmatched. The lay side moved out to 12. I cancelled my 6 and 5 and those back positions instantly go back in. What the heck is going on?

I know this all sounds "incredible" and I'm disappointed I couldn't upload it properly.

Hopefully I'll capture all on the desktop soon.

[Deeppockets]

I saw something similar yesterday (Sat) morning. Trying to back Sociedad v Malaga DNB at 4.7. There was £115 sitting on the lay side in a very thin market. As soon as I put my £20 on, the £115 disappeared and my back bet sat there unmatched. When I cancelled my bet the £115 reappeared. Did this 3 times, I finally decided to accept the next best odds of 4.0 and got matched.

[gazuty]

Thanks deep.

This is exactly what happens to me. When I cancel the positions reappear. I try to take them and they disappear.

I was beginning to think I was crying wolf.

[barlorca]

This sometimes happens when you come up against automated bots. Although a "newbie" with less than one years experience of Bet Angel I have noticed this happening in some markets. It would appear that someone is testing the market. Money is "available" to trade for a short time (seconds) if not matched the bet is cancelled and then the submission sequence is repeated. Once a shorter price is taken,(sometimes offered by the same bot) the original bet is cancelled. You have probabily had a timing sequence failure in matching the bet. I have waited a while and successfully matched two bets in a situation like this. One obvious thing to do is set the price you want, maybe one point below. Depending how the bot is programmed a price of 4.6 or 4.5 might have been accepted. Hope this helps.

[gazuty]

Thanks barloca

Its not a timing issue. Unless the other side can somehow "sense" my position coming into the market and cancel in advance. I'm running at about a 40ms connection, so while others might be slightly closer to the exchange servers, don't see how I could be cancelled.

Also just and FYI, generally I make people buy my position. I'm patient and don't like to cross the spread. But when I see a "wrong" price I will hit it. Except it seems I can't.

Using the ScreenR service to capture this didn't work because I was unable to upload. Will try again later this week when I'm on the desktop.

[PeterLe]

Hi
Maybe you could drop an email to [email protected] explaining the situation
Those guys are fairly good and usually reply
Worth a try?
Regards
Peter

[steven1976]

From what I understand with what your saying I would also say that it is bots or at least semi automated bots. When there is very little or no money in the markets they will create a nice wide spread and move according to the score and timing of a match. If you were offering to back at 4.7 but eventually gave up and took 4.0 your money will be exposed slightly longer and the bot will move down accordingly with time in the match. As you took 4s it will give them the chance to possibly sell out the position if you get nervous or a layer comes in. As the bot is only acting to make the market exist so to speak with a reasonably wide spread, when your money arrives you are then creating the liquidity and therefore there is no need for their money to be in the market possibly. For weak footbalI markets I find these can help if your willing to be patient and only offer up money.

[gazuty]

From what I understand with what your saying I would also say that it is bots or at least semi automated bots.

Thanks for all the responses. What I need to do is record it next time and show you all.

It is not a bot. For the simple fact, I am trying to take the money that is available and yet I cannot hit the position, and my own position appears on the opposite side, and then when I cancel my position, the prior position instantaneously reappears. I have a vps with a very fast connection, there should be no way of cancelling faster than my bet enters.

In any case, I'll keep an eye out today.

[Euler]

I'd be really interested in being able to replicate this. Fairly enough there is a bot trying to make a market, but on every event? That seems beyond the ability of most so you have to wonder who can cover all those markets at once?

[gazuty]

OK.

I was beggining to feel like the boy who cried wolf.

Finally captured it this morning on video. This will bake your mind, well it bakes mine. I will also be forwarding this to betfair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu57JNdLwO4

I am going about my morning routine. I load up a market and go about setting it up for the day and on loading I see that I can make a killing given there appears to be a serious fat finger lay against every runner. Except as you will see, I cannot hit any of those positions.

Unbelievable. What is going on?

PS, Hoping not to see too many of you guys joining me in these markets - hopefully too esoteric for the rest of you.

[convoysur-2]

where is the video ?????

[gazuty]

Youtube link?

[Euler]

You are looking at cross matching: -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bys1lu-18wo