Premium Charge question

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kiwidude
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:52 am

Hi guys, sorry to bump an old thread. I've only bet on 110 markets so I'm still a ways off from being eligible for PC but my current commission % is only 8% so I'm a bit worried looking ahead.

I've been trying to get to grips with how this all works and ways to avoid ever being eligible to pay it as it seems once you're eligible it's much harder to avoid the charges.

Is the only way to generate over 20% commission (without PC) by losing more? Or is it possible to generate over 20% whilst also maintaining a high win rate?

Thanks in advance
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Euler
Posts: 24701
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

If you are a long way under the £250k you have plenty of time to change your style to avoid the higher rate. Do what makes you money but diversify into other strategies that are break even to rack up some commission.
kiwidude
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:52 am

Thanks for your reply. I have read about some methods to try and break even such as backing 0-0 correct score and then laying under 0.5 goals however the liquidity in this markets appears to be very low and I'm yet to see a scenario where I'd be able to do this without laying at higher odds than I backed. I read that this sort of stuff is dominated by auto trading.

Are there any other methods you can recommend? I think arbing with bookmakers is a viable strategy but it's a massive issue getting money down at corporate bookmakers and arbs are rarely available with books like pinnacle.
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Arbing is an excellent way of reducing or eliminating premium charge, the problem is you will quickly get restricted and if you're a big trader with a high trading strike rate it may not make a drastic difference overall.
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Naffman
Posts: 5626
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Arbing is a very short-term solution though and requires a lot of time and is a lot of hassle (especially when trading at the same time)

Do what Euler says, you can scale a lot more so you can generate more commission and sometimes make a profit too...also it saves all the hassle that comes with arbing (long-term)
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BetScalper
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm

Setup different accounts with different names and payment methods.

Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
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Dallas
Posts: 22674
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Naffman wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:41 pm
Arbing is a very short-term solution though and requires a lot of time and is a lot of hassle (especially when trading at the same time)

Do what Euler says, you can scale a lot more so you can generate more commission and sometimes make a profit too...also it saves all the hassle that comes with arbing (long-term)
+1
I'd agree with that, you could even set up some simple automated strategies just to generate commission so you don't even need to be at your PC (computer to avoid confusion :) )
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3205
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

BetScalper wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 pm
Setup different accounts with different names and payment methods.

Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
Also from location(s) that create different IP addresses.
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Naffman
Posts: 5626
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

wearthefoxhat wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:45 pm
BetScalper wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 pm
Setup different accounts with different names and payment methods.

Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
Also from location(s) that create different IP addresses.
Now that's the hassle I'm talking about ;)
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

BetScalper wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 pm
Setup different accounts with different names and payment methods.

Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
I've asked a close friend on benefit, who doesn't gamble if I can set up a PayPal and series of bookie accounts in his name and split the profits with him. I thought he'd jump at the chance but he gave me a clear no. Not that he doesn't trust me, but understandably he's concerned about the consequences of the DWP finding out about funds in his name not declared.

There are all sorts of things you won't think about but the person who's identity you want to borrow will. :)
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Dallas
Posts: 22674
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Derek27 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:41 pm
I've asked a close friend on benefit, who doesn't gamble if I can set up a PayPal and series of bookie accounts in his name and split the profits with him. I thought he'd jump at the chance but he gave me a clear no. Not that he doesn't trust me, but understandably he's concerned about the consequences of the DWP finding out about funds in his name not declared.

There are all sorts of things you won't think about but the person who's identity you want to borrow will. :)
You and Spreadbetting maybe connected via the same friend
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18064&start=5
kiwidude
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:52 am

Thanks for all the replies. I understand what Euler means but I'm not sure how to actually achieve that, can anyone share some methods for consistently breaking even and generating commission?

As for using accounts in other peoples names, that's possible but I thought Betfair was very strict about this?
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Derek27
Posts: 23476
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

kiwidude wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:40 am
As for using accounts in other peoples names, that's possible but I thought Betfair was very strict about this?
I wouldn't mess around with Betfair. It may be possible with bookies (never had the opportunity to try it) but Betfair being an exchange, have more data, algorithms and incentive to spot similar activity between accounts that could bypass premium charge.

One guy was reported to have £55K snatched out of his account by Betfair after they claimed they had evidence to link it to 4 other Betfair accounts. He was considering suing but I haven't heard anything in the news about it since.
kiwidude
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:52 am

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:41 am
kiwidude wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:40 am
As for using accounts in other peoples names, that's possible but I thought Betfair was very strict about this?
I wouldn't mess around with Betfair. It may be possible with bookies (never had the opportunity to try it) but Betfair being an exchange, have more data, algorithms and incentive to spot similar activity between accounts that could bypass premium charge.

One guy was reported to have £55K snatched out of his account by Betfair after they claimed they had evidence to link it to 4 other Betfair accounts. He was considering suing but I haven't heard anything in the news about it since.
Yep I've read that story so not keen on that idea at all.

I'm keen to learn how to generate more commission using break even methods I just don't really know how so any insight on how this is done would be awesome. By the way I'm a manual trader, I have no experience with bots or anything so I do apologise for my ignorance.
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BetScalper
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm

Have a look on your machine for IESNARE. It could be hidden.

Not sure if BetFair use it but book makers and poker sites do.

It allows them to monitor what you doing and what sites you visit.

If a poker site see’s that your visiting pokerbot sites then they assume your running some kind of automated system and will freeze your account and confiscate your balance.
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