New Betfair Plan

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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Tuco
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:43 pm

...yes, we are talking about commission only and not total charges.
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Kai
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:57 pm
You need to know your rate long before getting hit with PC. It's a figure that should be available to anyone anytime especially with it being so important. Truth is they benefit from making it hard to find so keeping your own records is important and it keeps them honest.
That sounds smort Shaun but I'm not one for planning ahead too much, things kind of sort of always seem to somehow work out :D I've ditched the worrying strategy in general after realizing it only had about 1% hitrate :mrgreen: Inb4 somebody posts "If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail!” as a counterargument.
rabetsu
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:34 pm

For me it’s not available in my account settings…
Maybe it’s because i rarely use Betfair or some country restrictions for this reward scheme?
It's look that it's not available in some Eastern Europe Countries.
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jamesedwards
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:27 pm
LinusP wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:28 pm
This is the link not sure if you need permission

https://myaccount.betfair.com/activity/premium-charges
I believe people who haven't yet been charged PC don't have access to their PC page. I've even heard of people who used to pay it but no longer do have their page removed.
I dont know what the criteria is but I had access to my PC page several months before I qualified.
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jamesedwards
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:56 am
sa7med wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:55 am
Just got the email. Correct me if im wrong but wouldn't those paying PC be better off with the 8% category? Considering you'd be topped up to 20% anyway, only at least you'd be getting some, although paltry, rewards?
Here's a little spreadsheet - you'll find you're better off on 2% because you only acutally get credited for half the commission you pay. Annoyingly, the guy who lost the money gets credited for the other half. ;)

Bear in mind that if this plan comes to an end and you switch back to the standard 5%, your points and commission discount will have slipped away.
Hi Derek, I have been told that for the PC commission calculation it takes 50% of your commission paid on winnings and adds this to 50% of implied commission on losses. If I have been informed correctly (and my PC page would back up that I have), then your spreadsheet doesn't take this into account?
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Derek27
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jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:51 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:56 am
sa7med wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:55 am
Just got the email. Correct me if im wrong but wouldn't those paying PC be better off with the 8% category? Considering you'd be topped up to 20% anyway, only at least you'd be getting some, although paltry, rewards?
Here's a little spreadsheet - you'll find you're better off on 2% because you only acutally get credited for half the commission you pay. Annoyingly, the guy who lost the money gets credited for the other half. ;)

Bear in mind that if this plan comes to an end and you switch back to the standard 5%, your points and commission discount will have slipped away.
Hi Derek, I have been told that for the PC commission calculation it takes 50% of your commission paid on winnings and adds this to 50% of implied commission on losses. If I have been informed correctly (and my PC page would back up that I have), then your spreadsheet doesn't take this into account?
That's not quite correct. It only takes into account implied commission.

Implied commission = (commission paid + 3% of losses) / 2.
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jamesedwards
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:02 am
jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:51 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:56 am

Here's a little spreadsheet - you'll find you're better off on 2% because you only acutally get credited for half the commission you pay. Annoyingly, the guy who lost the money gets credited for the other half. ;)

Bear in mind that if this plan comes to an end and you switch back to the standard 5%, your points and commission discount will have slipped away.
Hi Derek, I have been told that for the PC commission calculation it takes 50% of your commission paid on winnings and adds this to 50% of implied commission on losses. If I have been informed correctly (and my PC page would back up that I have), then your spreadsheet doesn't take this into account?
That's not quite correct. It only takes into account implied commission.

Implied commission = (commission paid + 3% of losses) / 2.
So does that mean the spreadsheet isn't correct? Does the PC calculation use implied commission or actual commission?
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Derek27
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The spreadsheet uses implied commission: MAX(Gross*0.2-(C6+Loss*0.03)/2,0)

C6 is commission paid.

(C6+Loss*0.03)/2 is implied commission.

Subtracted from 20% of your weekly gross profit results in PC payable.
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jamesedwards
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:25 am
The spreadsheet uses implied commission: MAX(Gross*0.2-(C6+Loss*0.03)/2,0)

C6 is commission paid.

(C6+Loss*0.03)/2 is implied commission.

Subtracted from 20% of your weekly gross profit results in PC payable.
Thanks. Sorry, I was looking at the commission cell rather than the PC cell so I didnt see the applied comm calculation.
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jamesedwards
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Thanks so much for the spreadsheet and advice. I've just started to pay 20% PC and based on my projected P&L going forwards my options are:

1) Continue on 2% commission but by the time I get to £250k net profit I will be on 4.1% and therefore stuck in the 60% bracket.
2) Move back to 5% commission (costing me £40 per week) and be on 5.7% and therefore 50% bracket.
3) Move up to 8% commission (costing me £80 per week) and be on 7.4% and therefore 50% bracket.

Anyone have any views or advice to share based on these options please?
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Derek27
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Location: UK

It might be worth logging your weekly commission and PC in a spreadsheet with a few 'what if' columns. You need to consider how long it will take to reach £250K but you really want to avoid that 60% and 50% punishment.
rik
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Location: London

i went from 60% to 40 in a few weeks at least 2 fast ways to do that and others that will take more time i wrote it earlier in the thread
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Derek27
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Location: UK

rik wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:35 am
i went from 60% to 40 in a few weeks at least 2 fast ways to do that and others that will take more time i wrote it earlier in the thread
I'm surprised you're paying 40% PC, given your style of trading involves heavy liabilities and big losses as well as profits.
rik
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:16 am
Location: London

used to have a big edge for tennis and generally have much lower risk tolerance
actually when i went from 50 to 40% i went to 44% total charges think they have to calculate it as if i had been on 40% since account opening but had a lot of credit then, missed to take a screenshot before the swap so tough to understand what happened, anyone the same? also they only changed after i emailed them a week late maybe its to do with that
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jamesedwards
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rik wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:35 am
i went from 60% to 40 in a few weeks at least 2 fast ways to do that and others that will take more time i wrote it earlier in the thread
Particularly interested in the below and will have a play with this myself:

"safer way have a market making automation with lots of small orders, good chance youll make a profit before commission and variance wont be bad".

To help get me started, do you set these at around 98%/102% round to cover the 2% commission or do you go a bit harder like 96%/104%? Are you better off setting orders on all selections in a market or just a couple? I imagine the more selections the more they will balance each other off and the longer it takes to build commission generated?

Thanks for any advice you can share.
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