Betfair left Russia

[Kai]

I was hit by over 250 000 EUR financial damage because of this closure and IBAS is currently dealing with my case, but I wonder if anyone in this forum has some unique or interesting insight to these closures.

What happened? If you don't mind me asking.

This is a predominantly English community so not many people trading from outside of those areas, don't know any Russian forumites on here besides Napshnap, not sure if he's active but you can try PMing him if that helps.

[VilluV]

I was hit by over 250 000 EUR financial damage because of this closure and IBAS is currently dealing with my case, but I wonder if anyone in this forum has some unique or interesting insight to these closures.

What happened? If you don't mind me asking.

This is a predominantly English community so not many people trading from outside of those areas, don't know any Russian forumites on here besides Napshnap, not sure if he's active but you can try PMing him if that helps.

I was an active daily trader on Democratic Nominee Market from December 2019 - March 2020. Pretty much predicted every major trend in polls and on the market during that time period. So I made good profits and partially cashed out after Super Tuesday and was on a way of full cashout. Biden I had for a while over 300K green, but around that time when they closed my account, I think something with 274K.

Since this race was pretty much over after Super Tuesday and waiting Democratic Convention official announcement, I didn't check my account daily anymore (since also other events I would had bet on, were canceled due to corona).

Then in May I suddenly logged in and found my account has been closed and all my bets voided/canceled (because of the Estonia market closure). I found they have sent me an email about the closure to "promotions" section less than 1 business day in advance, before the closure.

And it seems they haven't usually voided already matched bets when they have left markets previously. So rather unprecedented situation?

After 3 and half months of email exchange with them (also with my lawyer), I finally got them to admit what has happened with me. And finally at least release some kind of data regarding to that market now this week. So IBAS panel is now ruling the case and the outcome of it should be mostly dependant if Estonian authorities have actually ordered Betfair to do these actions or not.

I'm an Estonian citizen and my account was registered on Estonian address/residency long time ago, although I haven't otherwise been much connected to that country anymore.

[Archery1969]

Does anyone know if Betfair had actual legal reasons or even right to not only left Russian and Estonian market, but to also void/cancel all the bets, or what is the backround of these market closures?

I was hit by over 250 000 EUR financial damage because of this closure and IBAS is currently dealing with my case, but I wonder if anyone in this forum has some unique or interesting insight to these closures.

Betfair’s official excuse has been new regulations and that country’s authorities have ordered to execute these actions. I talked straightly to Estonian gambling authority and they confirmed that there are no new regulations, neither have they contacted Betfair or ordered them to do anything this year.

Apparently the following has something todo with it:

“Betfair domains have been regularly blacklisted by Russia’s telecom watchdog Rozkomnadzor.”

Hmmm, I guess this is more of a motivation, but it shouldn’t give legal right to do these actions they’ve done? (even void earlier two-sided bets only for one side of transaction on Exchange)

But Betfair or any other company doesn’t need a legal or any other reason to leave a country and close down operations.

[VilluV]

Apparently the following has something todo with it:

“Betfair domains have been regularly blacklisted by Russia’s telecom watchdog Rozkomnadzor.”

Hmmm, I guess this is more of a motivation, but it shouldn’t give legal right to do these actions they’ve done? (even void earlier two-sided bets only for one side of transaction on Exchange)

But Betfair or any other company doesn’t need a legal or any other reason to leave a country and close down operations.

Yeah, no one is arguing against that. But the other subject of matter is that can they just cancel bets old bets for only one side of the transaction? Every bettor I've talked to has been really confused by that, how could they do that.

I mean they are offering Exchange platform where bettors exchange bets with each other, from what they take commission. But in the end there are two sides, two real persons behind these bets, in every transaction made on the market..like on a stock market.

And it sounds certainly unfair or unsound to cancel the bet for one side, while for the counterpart, the bet still runs.

Literally they are letting the losing bets run where bettors lose money and my profits just went to their pockets.

In earlier market closures they have usually honored already made bets and positions and bettors have been able to collect them through customer service later on.

And for what is the cash out option then if that doesn't mean your profit is already locked in (in a case market gets settled)?

[Archery1969]

Hmmm, I guess this is more of a motivation, but it shouldn’t give legal right to do these actions they’ve done? (even void earlier two-sided bets only for one side of transaction on Exchange)

But Betfair or any other company doesn’t need a legal or any other reason to leave a country and close down operations.

Yeah, no one is arguing against that. But the other subject of matter is that can they just cancel bets old bets for only one side of the transaction? Every bettor I've talked to has been really confused by that, how could they do that.

I mean they are offering Exchange platform where bettors exchange bets with each other, from what they take commission. But in the end there are two sides, two real persons behind these bets, in every transaction made on the market..like on a stock market.

And it sounds certainly unfair or unsound to cancel the bet for one side, while for the counterpart, the bet still runs.

Literally they are letting the losing bets run where bettors lose money and my profits just went to their pockets.

In earlier market closures they have usually honored already made bets and positions and bettors have been able to collect them through customer service later on.

And for what is the cash out option then if that doesn't mean your profit is already locked in (in a case market gets settled)?

I dont know to be honest, all i have seen is them telling customers to cancel bet and removed funds by 14th May I think. No reasons have been given that I have found. Could be politcally motivated, I know Putin is against all forms of betting unless its Poker as he considers that a game of skill. But for this to happen so quickly means either Betfair/Paddy Power were told to do it asap by someone in authority or their owners took the decisions that potentially something very dodgy was going on with Russion monies.

[VilluV]

But Betfair or any other company doesn’t need a legal or any other reason to leave a country and close down operations.

Yeah, no one is arguing against that. But the other subject of matter is that can they just cancel bets old bets for only one side of the transaction? Every bettor I've talked to has been really confused by that, how could they do that.

I mean they are offering Exchange platform where bettors exchange bets with each other, from what they take commission. But in the end there are two sides, two real persons behind these bets, in every transaction made on the market..like on a stock market.

And it sounds certainly unfair or unsound to cancel the bet for one side, while for the counterpart, the bet still runs.

Literally they are letting the losing bets run where bettors lose money and my profits just went to their pockets.

In earlier market closures they have usually honored already made bets and positions and bettors have been able to collect them through customer service later on.

And for what is the cash out option then if that doesn't mean your profit is already locked in (in a case market gets settled)?

I dont know to be honest, all i have seen is them telling customers to cancel bet and removed funds by 14th May I think. No reasons have been given that I have found. Could be politcally motivated, I know Putin is against all forms of betting unless its Poker as he considers that a game of skill. But for this to happen so quickly means either Betfair/Paddy Power were told to do it asap by someone in authority or their owners took the decisions that potentially something very dodgy was going on with Russion monies.

Estonian market closure was on Monday, May 04th. And they sent an email to their Estonian customers about it after 6pm in Estonian time on Friday, May 01th.

[Selmer]

This is a predominantly English community so not many people trading from outside of those areas, don't know any Russian forumites on here besides Napshnap, not sure if he's active but you can try PMing him if that helps.

I am from Ukraine/Russia.

As for VilluV, unfortunately, I can`t share anything informative or interesting, I just hope that everything will resolve in your favor. It`s painful to read, so unfair.

[VilluV]

This is a predominantly English community so not many people trading from outside of those areas, don't know any Russian forumites on here besides Napshnap, not sure if he's active but you can try PMing him if that helps.

I am from Ukraine/Russia.

As for VilluV, unfortunately, I can`t share anything informative or interesting, I just hope that everything will resolve in your favor. It`s painful to read, so unfair.

Thank you.

[vljrsn]

This is a predominantly English community so not many people trading from outside of those areas, don't know any Russian forumites on here besides Napshnap, not sure if he's active but you can try PMing him if that helps.

I am from Ukraine/Russia.

As for VilluV, unfortunately, I can`t share anything informative or interesting, I just hope that everything will resolve in your favor. It`s painful to read, so unfair.

Thank you.

Can I send You PM?

[vljrsn]

This is a predominantly English community so not many people trading from outside of those areas, don't know any Russian forumites on here besides Napshnap, not sure if he's active but you can try PMing him if that helps.

I am from Ukraine/Russia.

As for VilluV, unfortunately, I can`t share anything informative or interesting, I just hope that everything will resolve in your favor. It`s painful to read, so unfair.

Thank you.

VilluV , can I send PM ?

[VilluV]

I am from Ukraine/Russia.

As for VilluV, unfortunately, I can`t share anything informative or interesting, I just hope that everything will resolve in your favor. It`s painful to read, so unfair.

Thank you.

VilluV , can I send PM ?

Sure.

[cmuddle]

In my knowledge Estonia is a European country and does not have anything to do with Russia.

Good Luck Villu,

looks like you are making it a proper process with lawyers and authorities, so it should all work out for you and you should get your money back.

[VilluV]

In my knowledge Estonia is a European country and does not have anything to do with Russia.

Good Luck Villu,

looks like you are making it a proper process with lawyers and authorities, so it should all work out for you and you should get your money back.

Thanks.

The scariest thing about this case is that the data they sent doesn’t really totally match with the screenshots I took of my bets.

And I have almost all the bets in ‘canceled’ section and they look more of bets I canceled myself (orders) during active trading, not the actual matched bets.

Does anyone know about cases where Betfair has distorted or deleted customer data on purpose?
Shouldn’t there be legally very bad consequences for this kind of action?

[spreadbetting]

Does anyone know about cases where Betfair has distorted or deleted customer data on purpose?
Shouldn’t there be legally very bad consequences for this kind of action?

250K is a lot but to a company the size of Betfair it's not really enough to tempt them to commit some kind of fraud especially as it's shareholders money not theirs. All computer records have an audit trail and I doubt the person making the decision regarding your bets has the capability to delete them or a willing employee to commit fraud on their behalf.

Do you still have access to your account? Be worth downloading any behistory if so, or maybe request your bet data under GDPR if not.

[VilluV]

Does anyone know about cases where Betfair has distorted or deleted customer data on purpose?
Shouldn’t there be legally very bad consequences for this kind of action?

250K is a lot but to a company the size of Betfair it's not really enough to tempt them to commit some kind of fraud especially as it's shareholders money not theirs. All computer records have an audit trail and I doubt the person making the decision regarding your bets has the capability to delete them or a willing employee to commit fraud on their behalf.

Do you still have access to your account? Be worth downloading any behistory if so, or maybe request your bet data under GDPR if not.

Yeah it’s just very weird and unprecedented situation overall.

During earlier market closures they have honored earlier bets and market positions and let them run. Also they have let know about the closure more in advance (Russian customers got also now 2 weeks prior notice? I think, but for Estonians it was less than one business day).

Now they cut off customers instantly, excusing it with new regulations. We all know that there are no new regulations.

To IBAS they said that Estonian authorities ordered them to do all these actions. While I have confirmed that Estonian Gambling Authorities have nothing to do with this situation.

So either they are literally lying about everything or these ‘authorities’ who ordered these actions have nothing to do with gambling industry.

Considering that Russia-Estonia money laundering is overall a common thing, then it would seem logical that this could be one probability, what happened. And why they have acted so resolute and shady ways with these closures.

Which would probably give also more motivation to fuck with the data and hide traces.

Just something which would sound one of the most logical explanations for this situation for me, but that’s just an assumption still.

I don’t have access to account, but I have a lots of screenshots of bets and they have sent me their version of data as well. But their version of data is very suspicious, considering it has some inconsistencies with my screenshots and also I don’t see on the timeline in data some of the moves I’m 100% sure should be there.

These feel more of actually ‘canceled’ bets I canceled myself during active trading.