Betdaq volume monitoring thread

The purple place, the most viable alternative to the Betfair exchange
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jimrobo
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thought I'd start a general liquidity minitoring thread for betdaq so if anyone wants to post random liquidity numbers for betfair/betdaq we can see if the numbers are starting to change at all over time. Appreciate a like for like comparison isn;t possible but a general trend should be fairly easy to see.
andyfuller
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Can you not use the new Ladbrokes figures for a direct comparison? I thought they displayed in the BF format and not the BD way.

Alternatively someone who collects data (Cough: Peter Webb and Peter Leigh) could convert the Betfair matched amounts to Betdaq's through the use of a spreadsheet that would do it automatically.

Thus giving direct comparisons.
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jimrobo
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You don;t know what has been matched on each runner though so youcan't tranlate one to the other directly.

I thought they had changed it but they haven't its still the same calculation as far as I can see. Although I was getting a different volume number on different software but thats a seperate issue I am presuming.

As far as I can see the only easy way we are going to see is a general trend by quoteing the betfair and betdaq/lads volume numbers at off time and see if they are changing over time.
andyfuller
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Not 100% sure what you are talking about and when JR as you don't reference which provider when you say you can and can't do x y z?

As I remember:

A) Betfair calculate total amount matched as Backers Stake + Layers Stake so a £5,000 bet at 4.0 is recorded on Betfair as £10,000 total matched

B) On Betdaq the total amount matched is calculated as Backers Stake x The Odds so a £5,000 bet at 4.0 is recorded on Betdaq as £15,000 total matched

It may be different from when I used to be trading on BF but this is how I used to do it from memory:

1. At the off record the amounts matched against each price for each selection on Betfair into Excel
2. Divide the amounts matched by 2 so £10,000 matched becomes £5,000
3. Take 1 off each price so 4.0 becomes 3.0
4. Multiply the halved amounts matched by the prices they were matched at with 1 taken off eg. £5,000 x 3.0 = £15,000
5. Add them all up for each selection
6. You now have the total amount matched on a market on Betfair displayed in the same format as Betdaq give for their total amount matched on a market.
7. A direct comparison is now possible between Betfair and Betdaq

I am sure some Spreadsheet whizz could knock this up in a few minutes and set it running in the background giving a print out at the end of each day.

I don't know if you can get the amounts matched per selection on Betdaq, either in total or against each price? If you can you could do a direct comparison on a per selection level as well. And/Or reverse the above process and turn Betdaq amounts into Betfair amounts.

I thought Ladbrokes figure for total matched on the market was displayed in the Betfair format? When I looked it was different to how it is displayed on Betdaq :?
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jimrobo
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well, I thought it was different at first but I never actually did any testing on it to confirm!

That calculation only works if you know how much has been matched on each runner and you roughly translate it. Betdaq only give you a total matched in the market not an individual amount matched on each runner as far as i am aware
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mugsgame
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I am more interested in fill rates and how the back end of the market is.
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jimrobo
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fill rates/volume increases. It should all be changing really. I believe peter hs the ability to measure fill rates. Peter, any chance of measuring it and then in a couple of weeks and seeing if the data is pointing upwards??
andyfuller
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jimrobo wrote:That calculation only works if you know how much has been matched on each runner and you roughly translate it. Betdaq only give you a total matched in the market not an individual amount matched on each runner as far as i am aware
That is all the info needed for an identical comparison between the amount matched on BF v Betdaq at a market level. And all the required information is readily available.

Manually doing it is time consuming but if someone can automate it it should be very easy to get an exact comparison between the total amount matched on Betfair and Betdaq. Done over a period it would then be possible to get some good comparison data.

Also this can be done on any market.

I thought that is what you were after? Or have I misunderstood?
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jimrobo
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I was just thinking a general trend versus the betfair numbers rather than specifics because I wasn;t aware you could change the betdaq volume to the betfair calculation. Anything really that shows if liquidity is picking up at all on BD.
LinusP
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This would be easy if you could get volume matched per odds into excel via betangel (Please Peter :P ) You can do it using the api but it requires some programming....
andyfuller
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LinusP wrote:This would be easy if you could get volume matched per odds into excel via betangel (Please Peter :P ) You can do it using the api but it requires some programming....
I assumed you could as Peter often talks about how much is matched on the fav v others. It would be interesting if someone could create a record and produce some figures on say a weekly or monthly basis.
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aperson
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jimrobo wrote:well, I thought it was different at first but I never actually did any testing on it to confirm!

That calculation only works if you know how much has been matched on each runner and you roughly translate it. Betdaq only give you a total matched in the market not an individual amount matched on each runner as far as i am aware
One of BA rivals show the amount matched for each selection on daq at the top of their ladders so I guess it must be possible.

I trade BD racing markets most days and would say that although overall liquidity still isn't great the odd race has pretty decent liquidity. It seems to me there are one or two big players,(maybe Ladbrokes themselves), who on the odd selection will bet fairly large amounts, which can create some pretty good opportunities.
PeterLe
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..Just as an aside; Betfair is down at the moment, so it is a good time to run some automated strategies on betdaq…(or manual for that matter>?)
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jimrobo
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since BF went down liquidity seems to have gone through the flooron BD....just go's to show a lot of it looks like bots arbing
LinusP
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That 19:30 race was very strange, almost like the x-matching bot was turned off.
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