Betdaq volume monitoring thread
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Was that £140k on Betfair or Betdaq Peter?Euler wrote:First race at Galway did £140k, hoping to pick up a few quid there this week on Betdaq.
Hi all
Are there any "definitive" figures for a comparison between BD and BF volumes available anywhere on "the web" ?
As in, calculated in the same way (either BD's way or BF's way) and for "mid week" racing as well as "big race" meetings.
I suppose I'm asking the "Million Dollar Question".
Is BD "mirroring" (as near as damn it) BF yet, throughout/across the meetings and races.
Are there any "definitive" figures for a comparison between BD and BF volumes available anywhere on "the web" ?
As in, calculated in the same way (either BD's way or BF's way) and for "mid week" racing as well as "big race" meetings.
I suppose I'm asking the "Million Dollar Question".
Is BD "mirroring" (as near as damn it) BF yet, throughout/across the meetings and races.
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dickoryhickory
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:36 am
What about the 'hounds? Any comparison?
Thanks for that.
So, BD and BF are (about / kind of) mirroring each other in both Price and in Volume (in "like for like" calculations).
Does that include a "wet Wednesday in April, at Lingfield, in a Class D Hcap" ?
Also, very interesting about the "bookies" using Betdaq to hedge at bigger meetings.
Clearly there is the "natural" hedge for available for "an exchange" (be that BF and BD), but why do the bookies (I presume moreso "the Rails ?) use BD over BF to hedge their open (likely "one sided" positions). Anecdotally, BD has lesser Volume than BF....although this now seems to be equal.
So, BD and BF are (about / kind of) mirroring each other in both Price and in Volume (in "like for like" calculations).
Does that include a "wet Wednesday in April, at Lingfield, in a Class D Hcap" ?
Also, very interesting about the "bookies" using Betdaq to hedge at bigger meetings.
Clearly there is the "natural" hedge for available for "an exchange" (be that BF and BD), but why do the bookies (I presume moreso "the Rails ?) use BD over BF to hedge their open (likely "one sided" positions). Anecdotally, BD has lesser Volume than BF....although this now seems to be equal.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Volume is not the same - Betdaq is about 10% of what Betfair does though Euler will be able to provide more accurate information.
It is natural that the odds move in sync as people actively trade both exchanges at once - no commercial software is allowed to offer this but there is nothing to stop someone doing it themselves or even just having Bet Angel for Betdaq open on your screen and Bet Angel for Betfair open on your screen. There are videos on Youtube of people doing this.
The reason oncourse bookies use Betdaq I believe is due to the commercial agreements that are in place.
Betdaq is perfectly usable - just look at some of the profits people have posted on here and not just for the big meetings.
It is natural that the odds move in sync as people actively trade both exchanges at once - no commercial software is allowed to offer this but there is nothing to stop someone doing it themselves or even just having Bet Angel for Betdaq open on your screen and Bet Angel for Betfair open on your screen. There are videos on Youtube of people doing this.
The reason oncourse bookies use Betdaq I believe is due to the commercial agreements that are in place.
Betdaq is perfectly usable - just look at some of the profits people have posted on here and not just for the big meetings.
Thanks for your reply Andy. And the information.
The "10% of what BF volume is", is considerable.
But I'd like to touch on that subject again, in a later reply/post.
In so much as "in a price move (volatility), there is relatively little traded volume ("relative" to previous/future volume) anyway", so my interest is in "volume traded on Betdaq at a certain (key) point(s) rather than being drawn into "how much is traded in the overall race".
I guess that's down to me "data mining" rather than someone having the figures already.
As far as the "trading both markets in sync" (but disregarding "arbitrage"), I tend to trade "diversely" or "counter" in other markets. But I have come back to "Racing" to see if the same can be performed here.
But here, two exchanges have to be operated (as only ONE account for either exchange can be used).
BetAngel, from what I can gather, don't have a "BetDaq VPS offering" ?
Is this just a commercial decision, based on the "low overall demand" for BetDaq (and hence the "low volume" traded) ?
The "10% of what BF volume is", is considerable.
But I'd like to touch on that subject again, in a later reply/post.
In so much as "in a price move (volatility), there is relatively little traded volume ("relative" to previous/future volume) anyway", so my interest is in "volume traded on Betdaq at a certain (key) point(s) rather than being drawn into "how much is traded in the overall race".
I guess that's down to me "data mining" rather than someone having the figures already.
As far as the "trading both markets in sync" (but disregarding "arbitrage"), I tend to trade "diversely" or "counter" in other markets. But I have come back to "Racing" to see if the same can be performed here.
But here, two exchanges have to be operated (as only ONE account for either exchange can be used).
BetAngel, from what I can gather, don't have a "BetDaq VPS offering" ?
Is this just a commercial decision, based on the "low overall demand" for BetDaq (and hence the "low volume" traded) ?
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
I would say it is a commercial decision but there is nothing stopping you putting the Betdaq software on the Betfair version of the VPS I would have thought or just getting your own VPS and installing the software.
Edit: changed to make sense.
Edit: changed to make sense.
Last edited by andyfuller on Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers Andy.
It's good to "bounce off" someone.
It looks like it would be easier setting it up with the two exchanges (and therefore the two accounts) running through my VPS ....and running it like that.
Bugger. Just more "back office" stuff to get through.
I'm much more "GSI" (Get Someone In) than "DIY".
Or rather, buy an "off the shelf...everything is done" solution. But I can appreciate BetAngel's position. If "not alot of people are using it", then there's no point in putting on as a VPS offering.
Cheers again Andy.
!
It's good to "bounce off" someone.
It looks like it would be easier setting it up with the two exchanges (and therefore the two accounts) running through my VPS ....and running it like that.
Bugger. Just more "back office" stuff to get through.
I'm much more "GSI" (Get Someone In) than "DIY".
Or rather, buy an "off the shelf...everything is done" solution. But I can appreciate BetAngel's position. If "not alot of people are using it", then there's no point in putting on as a VPS offering.
Cheers again Andy.
!
As Andy has mentioned nothing from stopping you installing betdaq on a VPS, would love to know what optimisation the betangel betfair vps software actually involves...
Tagadab and AWS are cheap alternatives.The server edition of Bet Angel Professional has been optimised to take advantage of a more reliable and stable connection and will work only with our servers. The application assumes a fast connection and has been modified to take advantage of that.
Thanks LinusP
Just as an aside, I had previously used BetAngel for BetFair many moons ago.
There isn't an issue "installing" BetAngel for BetFair (non VPS) onto a VPS and as it "comes free" with BetAngel for BetDaq, "installing" that also.
Both (the same) platforms via a VPS to Exchanges.
Seems a couple of companies run services for both exchanges.
It's just a case of an "ease of use" front end interface, that links to excel (for "charting" purposes).
Just as an aside, I had previously used BetAngel for BetFair many moons ago.
There isn't an issue "installing" BetAngel for BetFair (non VPS) onto a VPS and as it "comes free" with BetAngel for BetDaq, "installing" that also.
Both (the same) platforms via a VPS to Exchanges.
Seems a couple of companies run services for both exchanges.
It's just a case of an "ease of use" front end interface, that links to excel (for "charting" purposes).
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spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
I'd never worry too much about direct comparisons between Betfair and Betdaq volume it really comes down to whether it's going to be a viable trading platform for you. I remember the early days of Betfair and the likes of Flutter, play121 etc where volumes were a lot less and all were perfectly tradeable to make a living from. I'd imagine with betfair being the better known alot of the volume is only traded money back and forth anyway, it'd be interesting to see the actual volumes of money bet to open positions between the two.
A "meaningless" brief comparison of "displayed" Total Market figures.
A "North of the border" low grade Nursery pulled in just above £300K on BD.
And a Midlands Seller pulled in £136K on the same exchange
Pretty respectable for Monday racing I think.
Comparing BD/BF
£150K v £517K Lo grade Hcap
£194K v £428K Same as above
Again noting, "displayed" figures, not calculated "actual" figures from either Exchange, so "irrelevant" as far as a comparison goes.
But "impressed" with the figures for BD on a Monday. Wasn't quite like that several years ago.
A "North of the border" low grade Nursery pulled in just above £300K on BD.
And a Midlands Seller pulled in £136K on the same exchange
Pretty respectable for Monday racing I think.
Comparing BD/BF
£150K v £517K Lo grade Hcap
£194K v £428K Same as above
Again noting, "displayed" figures, not calculated "actual" figures from either Exchange, so "irrelevant" as far as a comparison goes.
But "impressed" with the figures for BD on a Monday. Wasn't quite like that several years ago.