Bet Angel for newbies / Getting started : Dutching

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Hugodaglish
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:11 am

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:33 am

Hello all :)
This is all new to me, but very facinating to.
I was watching the vids on Dutching and thought, with my mates help who backs horses everyday :D my own little knowledge to, I thought this should be fairly easy, so I got free trial and started.
I picked all winners bar 1 in the races I dutched. The first 3 came in and my bank went from 29 to 60 £. then I dont know what happened. Some of my bets never got matched, what does it mean when this happens?
My predicted profit also just disapeared, one of my selections came in, all predicted profit turned red, then quick message came up in green, indicated I had won 1.08, but I never got my stake back!
Can i set it so that my predicted profit does not vanish?
Where did my stake go?
Hope this makes sense :?
Thanks Hugo

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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:18 am

Hi, I'm new on here too and the dutching videos got my interest too!

I've completed the 14 day trial and have now subscribed for a year. The dutching programme works well for me. Just to give you feedback on my experience(s) so far.

If the "back" button is ticked, when the odds move up or down, the software immediately adjusts and so does the predicted profit. (make sure the refresh is on 200 millisecs for best speed).

If your stake is too big for the available amount, is goes unmatched and stays in the market. If unmatched, it gets' cancelled unless you alter it to keep in-play or take BSP. (I always take BSP for insurance if unmatched).

I find the predicted profit is only a guide, an accurate one, based on how your trying to use the staking. However, once you click "place bet", for me, it doesn't serve a purpose. My position is either matched or not. (mostly matched).

The selections not matched are either ones I've manually asked for better odds, or I've missed the best price, but will average out @ BSP when unmatched at the off.

I use target profit for my main selections, 0 loss (insurance) for others and set an acceptable loss for the less fancied ones. By doing this, I'm effectively making a book% on ones I want on my side, the dangers and take on the less fancied ones.

I got caught out on African Trader on the 4thMarch South 3.50! Backed from 16/1 down to 6/1! I set an acceptable loss, but it still smarts. Learned afterwards, on it's last run, it had been disqualified as it had ran as scribner creek! You couldn't make it up! :shock:

On your post, your stake most likely went unmatched and cancelled when the market went in-play. The predicted profit changes all the time, even more so in-play. Dealing with non-runners, with dutching, can throw things around a little too.

Hugodaglish
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:11 am

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:16 pm

Thanks wearthefoxhat. I will keep trying.
As i said i am very new to this and still absorbing all the info, like BSP :D

So when i place my money on a dutch bet, the one that wins always goes to 1.1 or is it 1.0?, and takes my predicted profit with it! This is normal then, I cannot hold the prices. Sorry I will get it in the end?

I had the impression that I would make good returns dutching, as I could always pick runners that will get placed, so therefore picking good selections on a ducthing bet and not wasting covering more of the field, reducing profit.
Thanks again Hugo

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ShaunWhite
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:02 pm

Hugodaglish wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:16 pm

So when i place my money on a dutch bet, the one that wins always goes to 1.1 or is it 1.0?, and takes my predicted profit with it! This is normal then, I cannot hold the prices.
The winner (almost) always goes to 1.01. But as you are placing bets at a specific price , the price a selection reaches after you've placed it is irrelevant.

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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:13 pm

Hugodaglish wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:16 pm
Thanks wearthefoxhat. I will keep trying.
As i said i am very new to this and still absorbing all the info, like BSP :D

So when i place my money on a dutch bet, the one that wins always goes to 1.1 or is it 1.0?, and takes my predicted profit with it! This is normal then, I cannot hold the prices. Sorry I will get it in the end?

I had the impression that I would make good returns dutching, as I could always pick runners that will get placed, so therefore picking good selections on a ducthing bet and not wasting covering more of the field, reducing profit.
Thanks again Hugo
When you place your dutch bet, and the bet is matched, the green/red figures appear under the name of the horses on the left. At the same time, the list of unmatched bets appear in a new window below. In this window you will see the word "cancel." This is what will happen to the unmatched bets at the off, unless they are changed to "keep" or "take SP all."

Yes, 1.01 will occur on the winner, and you will see a green/red figure by the winning selection. I haven't worked out how to post up .jpeg image yet. This would show you visually.

Yes, picking good selections are key. I do like the way the software calculates the cover on other selections too. Each decision you make the software shows the staking and total staking figure..before you press PLACE BETS. If you wait 10 minutes before the off, there is more money available and your stakes are more likely to all get through.

Back dutching 4 or 5 selections, is effectively laying all the remaining selections, so finding the selections to keep on your side is important. I'll give you a quick example on todays racing. 7th March.

The ones in BOLD are keepers, the ones in Italic are insurance, the ones underlined are acceptable losers.

Fontwell 3.40
Cabernet Dalene
Krugermac
Okotocs
Free Range
Waiheke
Battle of Ideas
Dicosimo
Nesterenko

I particularly like G.Moore's: Krugermac, so may target profit more on that one.

I could just dutch the main 3 selections and effectively "Lay" the rest. However, I like juggling with the software and seeing how I could minimise the loss and sacrifice a little profit.

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Cards37
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:40 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:10 pm

So I may be missing something here - likely! - but unless you get the book percentage below 100% , isn’t Dutching still a long term losing strategy?

Derek27
Posts: 2808
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:47 pm

There's two types of dutching. Backing every horse in the race to return the same amount, and if the overround is under 100% you make a guaranteed profit. The other is gambling where you just back a few to return the same amount, which is just a straight bet on one of them winning.

I should make it clear that there is absolutely no hope of success to this strategy by simply dutching the most likely winners - that's the same as backing a long odds-on shot that's likely to win. The strategy will only work if you can judge which horses have a better chance of winning than the odds imply. If you can do this there isn't really any need to make dutching the focal point of your strategy as there may just be one horse in the race that's worth backing!

Hugodaglish
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:11 am

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:57 pm

wearthefoxhat ok that makes it a bit more clear, except the insurance bit.
How would I use the 2 selections as insurance? I more than likely have read or watched how to do it, but just cant remember.

I had a good day today. started off with a £46 Bank finished at £110.24,using £3 and a couple of £5, not on dutching though, on the 1 click screen. haha not to sure how I did some of it. Set up a bot and that did well to, oh and a bet on footy wolves to win. good day
If I can keep this up over the next few weeks i will up my bank, that is to be seen.
I am patient and not greedy, off work sick, dont think I will ever go back so have lots of time to absorb all of this. Loving it so far.

When my bank builds up I will apply a 10% banking stratergy and I am just learning abount compounding, although I have no clue if compounding is applicable here?
Thanks for the help again, a lot to learn but I think it is learnable and believe I could make a small amount of money each month to help pay the bills :)

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Cards37
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:40 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:24 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:47 pm
There's two types of dutching. Backing every horse in the race to return the same amount, and if the overround is under 100% you make a guaranteed profit. The other is gambling where you just back a few to return the same amount, which is just a straight bet on one of them winning.

I should make it clear that there is absolutely no hope of success to this strategy by simply dutching the most likely winners - that's the same as backing a long odds-on shot that's likely to win. The strategy will only work if you can judge which horses have a better chance of winning than the odds imply. If you can do this there isn't really any need to make dutching the focal point of your strategy as there may just be one horse in the race that's worth backing!
Thanks Derek that makes sense. Dutching the former way makes sense but would seem to be rarer than hen's teeth, dutching the latter way seems to be way beyound my knowledge of horses. I see a lot of "systems" bandied about but I dind it hard to believe any of them are profitable.

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ShaunWhite
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:45 am

Hugodaglish wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:57 pm
Not to sure how I did some of it.....
if I can keep this up over the next few weeks i will up my bank.
Think long and hard about these two sentences you wrote.

It very much sounds like what you are doing is gambling, despite your good start it WILL end badly. There are also NO systems that will instantly produce a profit.

If you are serious about getting involved with the exchanges please please set aside a week or more to learn as much as you can about what trading actually is. Watch the Betangeltv channel on YouTube and read as much as you can on the forum about risk, money management as well as various trading strategies and methods.

You mention patience and you will need that because it is very likely to take many many months to gain the knowledge and experience you need from where you're starting. A year is not untypical and success isn't guaranteed. Many people arrive here with decades of experience of gambling, spend 1000s of hours studying and learning, but still don't succeed.

Yes I'm a big black rain cloud on your sunny day but I genuinely wish you well. However I sense an enthusiasm that could be as damaging as it is productive unless it's reigned in and sharply focused.

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