Hi to Marc and Rion, welcome to the forum.
Marc, I wouldn't get too upset by the lack of information on the internet I would say it is not a deliberate plot from people on this forum. I have spent hours trying to help people on here and trust me it is not easy. There is no absolute way of trading, we all have preferred methods and we all have strengths and weaknesses. I have been doing this for many years and I am still learning and I am still suffering losses at times.
All I would say is try and remain positive about things and people will join you. If you take a negative view then people will see you as a troll or a moaner and so they will ignore you. That is not aimed as a personal sleight on you I am just speaking from many years of experience.
Because trading is such a broad subject it is virtually impossible to offer ABC123 style advice. Yes, there are methods to follow but as mentioned they are a broad brush and people have to find what suits them.
If you want general ABC123 advice then you are not going to find it but if you post a question about a problem you have then someone on here will usually try and help.
Forget looking for books or ebooks, they are usually out of date recycled garbage from years ago and they show methods that now rarely work.
Okay, scalping and what to look for.
If you look at Royal Ascot today the markets should be very strong i.e. there should be plenty of money flowing through them. To perform a successful scalp you either need
a] A very stable market overall (Royal Ascot)
b] A stable period in a market where the price ranges*
* I use this term to describe a price that holds stable, it almost just moved sideways rather than up and down. Almost all markets can show these movements but they are harder to find in weaker markets.
You do not want a stupidly strong favourite (Royal Ascot aside) because that will almost certainly mean larger price movement.
Remember - Volatility is the inverse of liquidity.
Jeff has already mentioned that you need to offer money to the market and you also need to ask for a price. The market is efficient so there is no point trying to beat an efficient market - it will just kill you in time. Yes you may get a few trades right but then it will go wrong and you'll lose money. Sadly many people start this way and think they have cracked it only to have it go wrong and for them not to understand why.
So let's take a basic price of 6.0 for a favourite in a Royal Ascot market. This is purely hypothetical as a guide for you and I am not trying to describe or predict an actual market.
Go to force open on the global settings and choose Reverse.
In the Offset (top left of global settings) select offset with greening. Set the offset to 1 tick.
Ensure there is a check mark in Fill or Kill. At Royal Ascot today you may need it as high as 360 seconds. This will change from day to day and on weak days it can be as low as 10 seconds.
That is the basic setup and you are now ready to go. Do not just dive in watch the market and keep an eye on how the prices are behaving. If the prices are up and down like Jordan's knickers then scalping is the fastest way to the poor house. When the market settles at Ascot today you should see some movement but it should be fairly settled...famous last words!
Okay so using 6.0 as an example price we need to place an opening order. Click on the 6.0 and offer to lay at that price for your desired stake. The software will place the order in the queue of money at 6.0 and you have to wait for it to be matched. If it is matched within the fill/kill time Bet Angel will automatically place a back order at 6.2 to try and secure a profit. Basically the order will join the queue of money at 6.2.
You need to watch the market because any sudden movements could cause a loss. If you get your opening order matched and it appears that the price is likely to shorten then you can try and scratch by backing at 6.0 or accept a loss at 5.9 At Royal Ascot today the markets should move slower so you get a chance to react before it moves.
If the market stays stable then you can repeat the process as many times as possible to try and grab the maximum profit.
Never be afraid to queue money just below the main price just in case the market spikes down and then revives. The worst case is likely to be no match (Yes in a weak market it may smash through you causing a loss but that is part of the learning curve)
At Royal Ascot some traders will actually place orders on both sides of the book because they have spotted a very stable market. This rarely works outside of meetings like Royal Ascot.
I hope that helps to get you started. Keep stakes low and give it a try today. Please remember this is a basic guide and there are lots of things to consider if you want to get into more detail. This setup should allow you to try scalping and get a feel for the markets.
Betfair scalping for beginners
Hi Dave
How do you judge whether a previously volatile market has gone into a period of sustained stability?
Let's say a market is jumping around within a 5-6 tick range. Would you class that as a stable market, in that the market isn't going anywhere, or volatile, in the sense that the price is moving around alot?
Do you find that there are generally good scalping opportunities near to the off, given that the price often settles down in the last minute?
Thanks
Jeff
How do you judge whether a previously volatile market has gone into a period of sustained stability?
Let's say a market is jumping around within a 5-6 tick range. Would you class that as a stable market, in that the market isn't going anywhere, or volatile, in the sense that the price is moving around alot?
Do you find that there are generally good scalping opportunities near to the off, given that the price often settles down in the last minute?
Thanks
Jeff
JollyGreen wrote:HTo perform a successful scalp you either need
a] A very stable market overall (Royal Ascot)
b] A stable period in a market where the price ranges*
* I use this term to describe a price that holds stable, it almost just moved sideways rather than up and down. Almost all markets can show these movements but they are harder to find in weaker markets.
If the prices are up and down like Jordan's knickers then scalping is the fastest way to the poor house.
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JollyGreen
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Jeff
A 5-6 tick move is not a stable market but that does not mean it will not stabilise somewhere.
I try and describe it as an earthquake shock-wave plotted on a seismograph. The first plot is a wild swing but as time moves on it settles down. When it settles you get a stable market which should allow a few scalps....just be wary of any aftershocks!
If you watch any market then almost all will show a period of stability where scalping is possible. Admittedly some will do the "Jordan's knickers" routine but that is where practice and experience comes in.
A 5-6 tick move is not a stable market but that does not mean it will not stabilise somewhere.
I try and describe it as an earthquake shock-wave plotted on a seismograph. The first plot is a wild swing but as time moves on it settles down. When it settles you get a stable market which should allow a few scalps....just be wary of any aftershocks!
If you watch any market then almost all will show a period of stability where scalping is possible. Admittedly some will do the "Jordan's knickers" routine but that is where practice and experience comes in.
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JollyGreen
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- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Money above and below the price can help maintain a stable market BUT........just be wary of a single amount that sticks out like a sore thumb. I get nervous if I see a single amount holding a price up or down! I just ask myself "what happens if that is withdrawn or matched?"....answer is usually a sudden move.
Thanks Dave
Suggestion for the admins- I think it would be helpful if threads like this one, which are likely to be useful to beginners for years to come, are marked as 'sticky' and placed at the head of the section.
Jeff
Suggestion for the admins- I think it would be helpful if threads like this one, which are likely to be useful to beginners for years to come, are marked as 'sticky' and placed at the head of the section.
Jeff
JollyGreen wrote:Money above and below the price can help maintain a stable market BUT........just be wary of a single amount that sticks out like a sore thumb. I get nervous if I see a single amount holding a price up or down! I just ask myself "what happens if that is withdrawn or matched?"....answer is usually a sudden move.
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JollyGreen
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Hi Marcconvoysur wrote:Hi Jolly green..
Thamk you soo much for taking the time to write all that i really apreachiate it.thats my plan for the day,
hope you have a great trading day ....
Regards
Marc
No problem, have some fun practising today. Please bear in mind you may get it wrong today but it is vital that you stick with it and at least try. if you get it wrong stay positive as best you can and try to find what went wrong. You may jump in too early, you may get caught by a huge sum hitting the market. If it is the former then you can practice some more on getting the entry time correct. If it is the latter then you have been unfortunate and must accept it is part of trading. Some days the spike will go your way so smile and accept the profit. When it hits you try and smile and accept the loss. Getting angry will only make things worse so there is no point!
No, I am not perfect and I do get angry and I do get it wrong. However I try and keep anger levels and their occurrence to a minimum!
JG
Thanks for all your comments!
Just a quick update, I think I've got my head around scalping now.
I'm playing it VERY safe and over 4 races today have made 0.82p using £2 stakes. I'm only scalping a maximum of twice in any given race.
I'm finding it a bit easy, and I'm sure it's not! Am I due a big hit or do you think it's because I'm using such small stakes that human emotion isn't playing a part, i.e losing large stakes etc. Or is it perhaps because I am playing it so safely?
Also I haven't been using bet angel pro to do my scalping, just on the betfair website. Is this a good or bad thing?
Sorry for all the questions! Would be thankful if someone could give a few answers though!
Cheers
Just a quick update, I think I've got my head around scalping now.
I'm playing it VERY safe and over 4 races today have made 0.82p using £2 stakes. I'm only scalping a maximum of twice in any given race.
I'm finding it a bit easy, and I'm sure it's not! Am I due a big hit or do you think it's because I'm using such small stakes that human emotion isn't playing a part, i.e losing large stakes etc. Or is it perhaps because I am playing it so safely?
Also I haven't been using bet angel pro to do my scalping, just on the betfair website. Is this a good or bad thing?
Sorry for all the questions! Would be thankful if someone could give a few answers though!
Cheers
Well done!
There's a book on trading psychology called Trading In The Zone (by Mark Douglas). One of the thing Douglas observes is that sometimes beginners get off to great starts. Perhaps the reason for this is because you don't know enough yet to over-complicate things!
But Douglas also says that new traders sometimes think 'Great! This is easy!', and end up going too high on their stakes and getting burned. So beware of taking the market for granted - she can be a bitch if you don't give her enough respect. 
Jeff
There's a book on trading psychology called Trading In The Zone (by Mark Douglas). One of the thing Douglas observes is that sometimes beginners get off to great starts. Perhaps the reason for this is because you don't know enough yet to over-complicate things!
But Douglas also says that new traders sometimes think 'Great! This is easy!', and end up going too high on their stakes and getting burned. So beware of taking the market for granted - she can be a bitch if you don't give her enough respect. Jeff
rion6791 wrote: I'm playing it VERY safe and over 4 races today have made 0.82p using £2 stakes. I'm only scalping a maximum of twice in any given race.
I'm finding it a bit easy, and I'm sure it's not!
Brilliant, I'll try and give that a read.
I think it's exactly that, I'm just feeling my way into it and it seems beginners luck played a huge part today.
I'm sure as I become more experienced I will try upping my stakes ever so slightly and using the graphs etc. I definitely won't be using large stakes any time soon!
As you say I'm still waiting to get burned and if I'm honest, I know next to nothing about trading!
However after todays result, I'll spend the evening blissfully in ignorance!
Cheers
Rion
I think it's exactly that, I'm just feeling my way into it and it seems beginners luck played a huge part today.
I'm sure as I become more experienced I will try upping my stakes ever so slightly and using the graphs etc. I definitely won't be using large stakes any time soon!
As you say I'm still waiting to get burned and if I'm honest, I know next to nothing about trading!
However after todays result, I'll spend the evening blissfully in ignorance!
Cheers
Rion
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JollyGreen
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Hi Rion
Well done! This is just a start so I would not get too excited.
Royal Ascot is a strong market so it will not move very far in terms of price. That is why I mentioned a "ranging" price and not being afraid to queue money just below the main price. The market is never going to be 100% flat but it should hold long enough for you to nip in and out.
Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas is a very good book and does help create the correct mindset.
Also, I suggest you start using Bet Angel as this will also make it much easier. I suggest the ladder because that will allow you to see where the money is building.
Good luck
Well done! This is just a start so I would not get too excited.
Royal Ascot is a strong market so it will not move very far in terms of price. That is why I mentioned a "ranging" price and not being afraid to queue money just below the main price. The market is never going to be 100% flat but it should hold long enough for you to nip in and out.
Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas is a very good book and does help create the correct mindset.
Also, I suggest you start using Bet Angel as this will also make it much easier. I suggest the ladder because that will allow you to see where the money is building.
Good luck
Thanks JollyGreen.
I completely understand this is just a start, I won't be blowing £100's anytime soon!
I'll definitely be having a read of that book.
To be honest,when I tried out Bet angel yesterday, I was a little intimidated as on the face of it, it seems very complicated.
One of the things I think could be hugely helpful (apologies if it already exists) is a glossary with definitions of terms such as 'ticks' 'offsets' 'stop loss'
As a beginner, just simply knowing exactly what these terms mean would simplify bet angel a lot. As I said apologies if such a glossary already exists.
Cheers
Rion
I completely understand this is just a start, I won't be blowing £100's anytime soon!
I'll definitely be having a read of that book.
To be honest,when I tried out Bet angel yesterday, I was a little intimidated as on the face of it, it seems very complicated.
One of the things I think could be hugely helpful (apologies if it already exists) is a glossary with definitions of terms such as 'ticks' 'offsets' 'stop loss'
As a beginner, just simply knowing exactly what these terms mean would simplify bet angel a lot. As I said apologies if such a glossary already exists.
Cheers
Rion
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2046
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Rion
Okay I have just had a great trade at Hamilton and I am about to open a cold beer and kick back!
Tick = Change in price e.g. 6.0 - 6.2 is 1 tick
Offset = A counter order to your initial order. e.g. if your offset is set at 1 and you open by laying at 6.0 then the software will automatically place an offset 1 tick above. Likewise if you backed first at 6.0 and it is matched then BA will place a lay order 1 tick below at 5.8
Stop trigger = This is set and measured against your opening order. if you laid at 6.0 and used a 2 tick stop it would trigger if the price reached 5.6
Stop (place) = This is where BA will place the stop order. A lot set it one tick below the stop trigger.
Fill or Kill = This is used in conjunction with offsets. The time you choose is the "kill" setting. If you place an order at 6.0 and the order is matched, then and only then will BA place an offset closing order according to your offset. If the time you set (e.g. 60s)expires then BA will kill the order.
Just shout if there are any more you want to know
JG
Okay I have just had a great trade at Hamilton and I am about to open a cold beer and kick back!
Tick = Change in price e.g. 6.0 - 6.2 is 1 tick
Offset = A counter order to your initial order. e.g. if your offset is set at 1 and you open by laying at 6.0 then the software will automatically place an offset 1 tick above. Likewise if you backed first at 6.0 and it is matched then BA will place a lay order 1 tick below at 5.8
Stop trigger = This is set and measured against your opening order. if you laid at 6.0 and used a 2 tick stop it would trigger if the price reached 5.6
Stop (place) = This is where BA will place the stop order. A lot set it one tick below the stop trigger.
Fill or Kill = This is used in conjunction with offsets. The time you choose is the "kill" setting. If you place an order at 6.0 and the order is matched, then and only then will BA place an offset closing order according to your offset. If the time you set (e.g. 60s)expires then BA will kill the order.
Just shout if there are any more you want to know
JG
HI jolly green
Thanks for your advice this simple system has been working just fine ,i pull up the graph set on back only candle.and watch for the spike headin down ,using the global settings offset feature recommended by you.and im taking it very easy on the stakes.
To Rion
Rion its better to use the betangel software if possible its daunting in the beginning,but its a fantastic product.ive tried all the others and the free ones,there really not as good i find,
Regards
Marc
Thanks for your advice this simple system has been working just fine ,i pull up the graph set on back only candle.and watch for the spike headin down ,using the global settings offset feature recommended by you.and im taking it very easy on the stakes.
To Rion
Rion its better to use the betangel software if possible its daunting in the beginning,but its a fantastic product.ive tried all the others and the free ones,there really not as good i find,
Regards
Marc