Brilliant, I'll try and give that a read.
I think it's exactly that, I'm just feeling my way into it and it seems beginners luck played a huge part today.
I'm sure as I become more experienced I will try upping my stakes ever so slightly and using the graphs etc. I definitely won't be using large stakes any time soon!
As you say I'm still waiting to get burned and if I'm honest, I know next to nothing about trading!
However after todays result, I'll spend the evening blissfully in ignorance!
Cheers
Rion
Betfair scalping for beginners
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2046
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Hi Rion
Well done! This is just a start so I would not get too excited.
Royal Ascot is a strong market so it will not move very far in terms of price. That is why I mentioned a "ranging" price and not being afraid to queue money just below the main price. The market is never going to be 100% flat but it should hold long enough for you to nip in and out.
Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas is a very good book and does help create the correct mindset.
Also, I suggest you start using Bet Angel as this will also make it much easier. I suggest the ladder because that will allow you to see where the money is building.
Good luck
Well done! This is just a start so I would not get too excited.
Royal Ascot is a strong market so it will not move very far in terms of price. That is why I mentioned a "ranging" price and not being afraid to queue money just below the main price. The market is never going to be 100% flat but it should hold long enough for you to nip in and out.
Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas is a very good book and does help create the correct mindset.
Also, I suggest you start using Bet Angel as this will also make it much easier. I suggest the ladder because that will allow you to see where the money is building.
Good luck
Thanks JollyGreen.
I completely understand this is just a start, I won't be blowing £100's anytime soon!
I'll definitely be having a read of that book.
To be honest,when I tried out Bet angel yesterday, I was a little intimidated as on the face of it, it seems very complicated.
One of the things I think could be hugely helpful (apologies if it already exists) is a glossary with definitions of terms such as 'ticks' 'offsets' 'stop loss'
As a beginner, just simply knowing exactly what these terms mean would simplify bet angel a lot. As I said apologies if such a glossary already exists.
Cheers
Rion
I completely understand this is just a start, I won't be blowing £100's anytime soon!
I'll definitely be having a read of that book.
To be honest,when I tried out Bet angel yesterday, I was a little intimidated as on the face of it, it seems very complicated.
One of the things I think could be hugely helpful (apologies if it already exists) is a glossary with definitions of terms such as 'ticks' 'offsets' 'stop loss'
As a beginner, just simply knowing exactly what these terms mean would simplify bet angel a lot. As I said apologies if such a glossary already exists.
Cheers
Rion
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2046
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Rion
Okay I have just had a great trade at Hamilton and I am about to open a cold beer and kick back!
Tick = Change in price e.g. 6.0 - 6.2 is 1 tick
Offset = A counter order to your initial order. e.g. if your offset is set at 1 and you open by laying at 6.0 then the software will automatically place an offset 1 tick above. Likewise if you backed first at 6.0 and it is matched then BA will place a lay order 1 tick below at 5.8
Stop trigger = This is set and measured against your opening order. if you laid at 6.0 and used a 2 tick stop it would trigger if the price reached 5.6
Stop (place) = This is where BA will place the stop order. A lot set it one tick below the stop trigger.
Fill or Kill = This is used in conjunction with offsets. The time you choose is the "kill" setting. If you place an order at 6.0 and the order is matched, then and only then will BA place an offset closing order according to your offset. If the time you set (e.g. 60s)expires then BA will kill the order.
Just shout if there are any more you want to know
JG
Okay I have just had a great trade at Hamilton and I am about to open a cold beer and kick back!
Tick = Change in price e.g. 6.0 - 6.2 is 1 tick
Offset = A counter order to your initial order. e.g. if your offset is set at 1 and you open by laying at 6.0 then the software will automatically place an offset 1 tick above. Likewise if you backed first at 6.0 and it is matched then BA will place a lay order 1 tick below at 5.8
Stop trigger = This is set and measured against your opening order. if you laid at 6.0 and used a 2 tick stop it would trigger if the price reached 5.6
Stop (place) = This is where BA will place the stop order. A lot set it one tick below the stop trigger.
Fill or Kill = This is used in conjunction with offsets. The time you choose is the "kill" setting. If you place an order at 6.0 and the order is matched, then and only then will BA place an offset closing order according to your offset. If the time you set (e.g. 60s)expires then BA will kill the order.
Just shout if there are any more you want to know
JG
HI jolly green
Thanks for your advice this simple system has been working just fine ,i pull up the graph set on back only candle.and watch for the spike headin down ,using the global settings offset feature recommended by you.and im taking it very easy on the stakes.
To Rion
Rion its better to use the betangel software if possible its daunting in the beginning,but its a fantastic product.ive tried all the others and the free ones,there really not as good i find,
Regards
Marc
Thanks for your advice this simple system has been working just fine ,i pull up the graph set on back only candle.and watch for the spike headin down ,using the global settings offset feature recommended by you.and im taking it very easy on the stakes.
To Rion
Rion its better to use the betangel software if possible its daunting in the beginning,but its a fantastic product.ive tried all the others and the free ones,there really not as good i find,
Regards
Marc
Hi Rion
This is great ,,,betangel has just released a practace mode so we can play with pretend money to master the software...
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4143#p29167 NICE ONE PETER WEBB.......
Regards
MARC
This is great ,,,betangel has just released a practace mode so we can play with pretend money to master the software...
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4143#p29167 NICE ONE PETER WEBB.......
Regards
MARC
Here's another piece of advice that might help:
Trade what you see, not what you think.
It's something that I've only recently started to apply (I've been trading on and off for years).
Rather than trying to constantly read the market, try to just respond in a pre-determined manner to whatever it throws at you...
In the words of Maverick in Top Gun - 'You don't have time to think. If you think, you're dead'. That reminds me - this is quite a funny clip about Top Gun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyN8VN4B ... re=related (Warning: contains strong language!).
Jeff
Trade what you see, not what you think.
It's something that I've only recently started to apply (I've been trading on and off for years).
Rather than trying to constantly read the market, try to just respond in a pre-determined manner to whatever it throws at you...
In the words of Maverick in Top Gun - 'You don't have time to think. If you think, you're dead'. That reminds me - this is quite a funny clip about Top Gun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyN8VN4B ... re=related (Warning: contains strong language!).
Jeff
convoysur wrote:Hi Rion
This is great ,,,betangel has just released a practace mode so we can play with pretend money to master the software...
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4143#p29167 NICE ONE PETER WEBB.......
Regards
MARC
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deanodean1984
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:07 am
[/quote]convoysur wrote:Hi Rion
This is great ,,,betangel has just released a practace mode so we can play with pretend money to master the software...
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4143#p29167 NICE ONE PETER WEBB.......
Regards
MARC
It was on the Geeks Toy well before Bet Angel, sorry but its true
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deanodean1984
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:07 am
deanodean1984 wrote:convoysur wrote:Hi Rion
This is great ,,,betangel has just released a practace mode so we can play with pretend money to master the software...
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4143#p29167 NICE ONE PETER WEBB.......
Regards
MARC
It was on the other software well before Bet Angel, sorry but its true[/quote]
lol i didnt even write "other software"!! seems as though bet angel has a block on other softwares names......
Hi,
Thanks for all the great questions and answers in this thread guys. I am in a similar position to Rion and Marc and am a very new aspiring trader. Only started looking at the markets a few months ago have learnt a few things along the way since then but have a very long way to go before I can confidently turn regualr profits. I am trying to take on board as much advice as possible and there is some very helpful advice in this thread so Thank You JollyGreen and Ferru for your posts! I am very grateful for yours and everyone elses advice on this forum. This along with a lot of practice and gaining experience hopefully one day us newbies can get there!
Thanks again.
Chris
Thanks for all the great questions and answers in this thread guys. I am in a similar position to Rion and Marc and am a very new aspiring trader. Only started looking at the markets a few months ago have learnt a few things along the way since then but have a very long way to go before I can confidently turn regualr profits. I am trying to take on board as much advice as possible and there is some very helpful advice in this thread so Thank You JollyGreen and Ferru for your posts! I am very grateful for yours and everyone elses advice on this forum. This along with a lot of practice and gaining experience hopefully one day us newbies can get there!
Thanks again.
Chris
An amazing thread and many thanks to all the contributors. Particular thanks to JG.
I am about 8 months into racing, only two weeks on Bet Angel and whilst I am sure it has the key to my improvement through 'scalps' and automations I am just not getting parts of it.
Great updates and once again. Thanks!
Julian
I am about 8 months into racing, only two weeks on Bet Angel and whilst I am sure it has the key to my improvement through 'scalps' and automations I am just not getting parts of it.
Great updates and once again. Thanks!
Julian
Hi Julian
You might want to have a play in practice mode with this spreadsheet, using random stops and offsets, and letting the spreadsheet enter the market at random:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2085
You'll probably make a loss, but it might give you an insight into what works and doesn't work...
Jeff
You might want to have a play in practice mode with this spreadsheet, using random stops and offsets, and letting the spreadsheet enter the market at random:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2085
You'll probably make a loss, but it might give you an insight into what works and doesn't work...
Jeff
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badboyal42
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:11 am
hi ya ladies and gents lay or back bets dont work. you should do places bets had 1.5 on your trigger bet and bet £10 stake. if you get one horse on each race you should get back £1.50p each bet your trigger goes off. so if you have 13 horse in a race and 3 horse get to 1.5 on ur odds ur win £4.50p on each meeting
please take note that you should have more than and £100 in bank
please take note that you should have more than and £100 in bank
It's said that that if you trade at random on Betfair, offering money and using a stoploss of x points and an offset of y points, you'll almost break even long term (commission will stop you breaking even).
I decided this evening to investigate this, using data from the financial markets.
I downloaded data relating to 42,500 one minute bars from the FTSE 100. This gives a mixture of everything you'd encounter in a Betfair market - prices swinging wildly in your favour and wildly against you, as well as the market going absolutely nowhere.
If you'd sold at the open of each bar and bought at the close, you'd have lost just 851 ticks. Given that the absolute value of the difference between the high and lows came to 144,385, that loss is due to chance rather than a negative bias IMHO. So that's roughly the situation you're in on Betfair if you offer money to the market and take the available price when you close (excluding commission).
But if you could close every trade with an offer of money (I know that's a big if!), you could add 42,500 ticks of profit to that 851 tick loss figure!
It's given me pause for thought about the power of simply randomly offering money on both sides of the book (something that goes against my trend following instincts!
)...
What do you guys think?
Jeff
I decided this evening to investigate this, using data from the financial markets.
I downloaded data relating to 42,500 one minute bars from the FTSE 100. This gives a mixture of everything you'd encounter in a Betfair market - prices swinging wildly in your favour and wildly against you, as well as the market going absolutely nowhere.
If you'd sold at the open of each bar and bought at the close, you'd have lost just 851 ticks. Given that the absolute value of the difference between the high and lows came to 144,385, that loss is due to chance rather than a negative bias IMHO. So that's roughly the situation you're in on Betfair if you offer money to the market and take the available price when you close (excluding commission).
But if you could close every trade with an offer of money (I know that's a big if!), you could add 42,500 ticks of profit to that 851 tick loss figure!
It's given me pause for thought about the power of simply randomly offering money on both sides of the book (something that goes against my trend following instincts!
)...What do you guys think?
Jeff