Betfair scalping for beginners

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ruthlessimon
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threedogs wrote:I am also struggling to understand the markets and on the theme of noticing recurring patterns I have noticed that all indicators will at one time favour a lay bet and then it seems as soon as i put a low stake on the market immediately drops 5 and 6 ticks away from my price straight into a loss situation from which it rarely recovers and when I check the indicators are still showing to lay even though by doing the opposite and backing I would have made a good profit .. I cant understand why it does that....any ideas ??
this is a prop trader @ futex. look what he's using: 1. ladder 2. volume profile. notice he isn't using WOM, MACD, stochastics & god knows what else. (also algorithms are 90% of the markets he's trading). all he's watching is the price & orders entering the market.

i saw recently someone say, "when prop firms hire new traders, first they teach them how to read order flow. once they're profitable, then they're allowed to use charts"
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threedogs
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THanks for both answers and I learn every day
Mr.rabiD
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:25 am

rion6791 wrote:Hi all,

I am a complete novice in the world of trading.

I am using the 7 day free trial of Bet Angel Pro, and watched the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMs3SfXiV8U

The second part shows the user 'scalping' using the one click screen, he makes it look so simple as though there's no brain power required at all.

I thought seeing as the trial was free. I'd give it a go using £2 stakes. I tried it once to lay the favourite but ended up losing 0.35p, I then went to the next race and did the same process, all the this time I spread the profit over all runners and ended up with 0.04p profit.

I just wanted to know whether there is some sort of signals to look out for or a time frame to place the lay bet?

I should note I had all the same options as the guy in the video selected with just smaller stakes.

I realise I'm probably falling at the first hurdle and the majority reading this will probably be amused at my apparent 'stupidity' but trading is something I am really interested in learning and perhaps one day mastering.

So if anyone can spare a minute and advise basic pointers to get me on my way, using very small stakes (I understand this will only result in potentially small profits,but that's fine for now)it'd be brilliant!!

Thanks in advance
I feel exactly how you do mate. So far i have lost £60. "tuition fees" I had some odd shit happen when i thought i closed the market. But the loss kept going up! It went till the race ended and i lost £23. So - so far i am doing really shit at this. I have watched loads of the videos and trying to learn. As like you i really want to get this working for me. Bu when you are making 2p -4p profit and loosing like 5-20p its very sole destroying indeed. I am guessing that you need to be playing with £100 stakes to make a realistic profit on this game. Very frightening.
Bluesky
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Mr.rabiD wrote:I am guessing that you need to be playing with £100 stakes to make a realistic profit on this game. Very frightening.
I think its a good idea just to try and learn how to trade well and not worry too much about making money when you first start out. If you become proficient then the money will come anyway.

Some people say you should trade with money that means something to you, however I think this depends on the individual. If you can trade with minimum stakes and take it seriously, then that's what I would suggest you do.

Someone posted something along the lines of the following recently on this site, and I 100% agree with them, they said.

If you cant make money with small stakes then you certainly wont make money with large ones.
cybernet69

Bluesky wrote:
Mr.rabiD wrote:I am guessing that you need to be playing with £100 stakes to make a realistic profit on this game. Very frightening.
I think its a good idea just to try and learn how to trade well and not worry too much about making money when you first start out. If you become proficient then the money will come anyway.

Some people say you should trade with money that means something to you, however I think this depends on the individual. If you can trade with minimum stakes and take it seriously, then that's what I would suggest you do.

Someone posted something along the lines of the following recently on this site, and I 100% agree with them, they said.

If you cant make money with small stakes then you certainly wont make money with large ones.
It can be done but it is difficult at times. Also depends allot on what markets you are trading.

If horse racing then stay away from non hcap races as they tend to be better for swing trading.

Also, you need to be lightening fast at scratching your trades for zero p/l if things go pair shaped. However, there is a way of automating this.
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workpeter
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cybernet69 wrote: very dedicated/sophisticated bots which will shift the odds in their favour to complete their book and make a profit overall. What their bots are doing is not possible in BA or other commercially available products.

They are usually built to do one thing and overall they do it very well....

You can still do it but you need to be very fast at entering TRUE scratch trades asap if the market does move against you. This means effectively you end up backing/laying at the same odds/amounts to get a ZERO outcome where needed. Again, that is not possible (automated) in BA or alike .
Why can't we do this in BA?
cybernet69

workpeter wrote:
cybernet69 wrote: very dedicated/sophisticated bots which will shift the odds in their favour to complete their book and make a profit overall. What their bots are doing is not possible in BA or other commercially available products.

They are usually built to do one thing and overall they do it very well....

You can still do it but you need to be very fast at entering TRUE scratch trades asap if the market does move against you. This means effectively you end up backing/laying at the same odds/amounts to get a ZERO outcome where needed. Again, that is not possible (automated) in BA or alike .
Why can't we do this in BA?
Without using Excel, how would you tell BA to scratch a back or lay trade. Meaning you back or lay at the same odds/amount as your opening trade ?
scottyboy319
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Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:12 am

I am having trouble making a profit from scalping on horse racing! I am watching the videos on youtube where they are scalping and using the same amount of money to back and ley and they are saying they know how much they will win regardless of what horse wins. But I am doing the same thing (I have settings set to offset with greening) but I am always breaking even and never getting a profit like the guys on the youtube videos are saying they are. If I stake more on the ley bet and the ley bet wins I will make a profit but if the back bet wins i will make a loss. I don't know where I am going wrong! any help would be much appreciated. I am new to trading!
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Dallas
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I assume this is carried on from this thread?
http://www.betangel.com/forum/viewtopic ... 33&t=13820

The info by Eddie9005 was correct but it sounds like you either dont have global settings enabled (blue cog icon uncrossed), if that is already uncrossed if you post a copy of a log for a market and a screenshot of your top banner so the settings being used can be seen someone will be able to advise further
scottyboy319
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Hi, Yeah it is, sorry I saw this thread and thought I might have a better chance of getting a reply/help!

I noticed that on the one click page the global settings icon was uncrossed but in ladder page it was crossed. So maybe that was the problem?! I have attached images of a log and settings I'm using too. Thanks for your help :) One other thing that I'm finding strange is that I will have back and ley bets matched but in the log text it will say the bet was completely unmatched!
Last edited by scottyboy319 on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dallas
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The global settings are independant on each screen so ensure you have them enabled on the one you want to place your bets/trades on

Other than that your settings are fine, you might want to increase the fill/kill time from half a second (0.5) to a few seconds to give your bets a better chance of being matched - when they do get matched its working fine, if you look on your log at 14:23:08 you'll see after your back bet was matched the offset lay of £2.06 was placed (this included greeing) so if that too was matched you will of had a 0.06p profit on all selections just from that one trade.

The log only shows a matched bet IF its matched at the moment it reaches the market, if its matched some time after that you wont see it in the log and will need to refer to the matched bets tab and cross check the id numbers.

Some threads you might want to look at
http://www.betangel.com/forum/viewtopic ... 47&t=12967
http://www.betangel.com/forum/viewtopic ... 47&t=12597

One last thing i would remove those images now as both are showing your Betfair username and in future just for your own security blot this info out if uploading a image
scottyboy319
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Ok great, thanks for your help I will check out them threads.

I just watched this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZXE7xPyG3M

I did everything exactly the same as peter did but still just broke even! After the bets got matched I ticked the green "hedge" icon and it said I would have a profit of 11p whatever the outcome...this profit margin was going up and down throughout the race tho and the lay bet ended up winning and I broke even!

Here is a screen shot of the log.
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Dallas
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It looks like your trying to jump between two seperate features of the software and ending up not achiving what your after.

The 'Make Market' button' (as shown in the video) is a different way of scalping and is seperate from global settings.

So if you want to use the 'Make Market' button it can not green as you go and it will only place the same size bet either side of the current price - you will need to green each bet afterwards or when you have finished placing all your trades (before the race goes in-play)

To do this as shown in the video tick the 'Green' box but you then have to click on one of the profit figure below to actually place the bet required to green up - when this is done and its matched you ll see the amount below the selections name change to show this has been done.

If your placing your bets directly on the ladder or one click screen (and not using the make market button) then the global settings can be used to green as you go - your screenshot shows you are set up to do this just make sure the blue cog is uncrossed and place your trades using either the ladder or one-click screen - when your first bet is matched the offset (including the amount needed for greening) will be placed for you

The two links posted above will cover this in more detail aling with images showing exactly how to do it & were to click etc
Bluesky
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PeterLe wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:21 am
My advice at this stage of your progression would be to concentrate on one thing (why not football, as you clearly have a passion for it). there was a couple of posts this week that will give you at least two pointers that you could trade and easily make a couple of thousand a month from.
This post was made several years ago, so I'm guessing that whatever Peter was referring to may no longer work. However I would be pleased if Peter Lee or anyone else who knows which posts he was referring to in this comment could link me to them so I could see what he was talking about.
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ruthlessimon
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Those words are so valuable. Trying to be a jack of all markets, you'll burn out & get incredibly frustrated very very fast. It's an very very advanced skill, switching between methods/reading techniques.

If you had 1 year to learn how to drive a car, bus, lorry, plane, helicopter; I guarantee that you wouldn't switch between each every 10 minutes!! So why do the same with trading!?

Stick with one, & become as good as you can get before moving to the next

-bit of a tangent Blue soz ;) but that post from Pete is gold
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