Bet Angel for newbies / Getting started : Betfair scalping for beginners

We were all new to Bet Angel once. Ask any question you like here and fellow forum members promise not to laugh.
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to75ne
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:24 pm

Ferru123 wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:12 pm
Hi Matt

My advice i ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Jeff
fleeting visit or have you come back?

Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:27 pm

Very much a fleeting visit.

I got a notification that there was a reply on this thread, so out of curiosity I visited.

When I read Matt's message, it reminded me of some of my messages, and I thought I'd do a reply that will hopefully shorten his learning journey, and spare him some of the pointless introspection aka worrying that I went through! :)

Jeff

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to75ne
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:46 am

shame its fleeting, always good to hear from you. best of luck :)

Bluesky
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:41 am

to75ne wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:46 am
shame its fleeting, always good to hear from you. best of luck :)
+1

Bluesky
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:53 am

1aslingm wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:44 pm

If you see the screen shot below, you can see that the WOM and market suggestion is that the favorite and second favorite should be drifting with a healthy 71% on fav pushing it up, I know the second fav isn’t as much with only 51% but has decent money either side.

I just wanted to know how accurate them signs are and do you take them as gospel?
It would be nice if you could take WOM as gospel but unfortunately trading is not that easy. WOW is calculated if memory serves correctly on the first three price points on either side of the current market price. People will use this fact to try and manipulate the market by placing large orders say in position two or three so their price wont be taken but it will influence the WOM.

From what I have read and been told, scalping is much harder now that it used to be. There is a large scalping thread on this site somewhere, read through it, it should help.

Don't be impressed with practise mode profits, practise mode is good for getting to grips with using the software and I guess if you cant make a profit using practise mode (and your taking is seriously) then there would not be much point using real money. However even using stakes like £10 you will find using real money is completely different and nothing like practise mode.

Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:53 pm

Thanks guys. It's good to know I have at least some fans in the forum! :D

My whole approach has changed, and while I still have a huge amount to learn, I no longer seek advice from forums and gurus. For me, the market is the best teacher, and if I want to test a theory I'll do so in the markets, using small stakes. Plus, I'm not sure it makes sense to give too much away to people you are competing against, and to top it all, I don't even use BA these days!

But thank you. :)

Jeff
Bluesky wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:41 am
to75ne wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:46 am
shame its fleeting, always good to hear from you. best of luck :)
+1

Bluesky
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:30 am

Ferru123 wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:53 pm
My whole approach has changed, and while I still have a huge amount to learn, I no longer seek advice from forums and gurus. For me, the market is the best teacher, and if I want to test a theory I'll do so in the markets, using small stakes. Plus, I'm not sure it makes sense to give too much away to people you are competing against, and to top it all, I don't even use BA these days!
This is interesting, I noticed SHR recently posted that the less time he spends on these forums the more money he makes. Several traders from the real world have told me the same thing and that makes me wonder why that should be the case. Some possible reasons could be:-

One will often get conflicting advice from trading forums, this may well be given in good faith but what works for one trader may cause another trader to lose money.

It can be a little off putting when you see people posting good returns and (in my case anyway) you are happy for them because you feel that if they can do it then perhaps you can too. Then some time later you find out those returns were either faked (for anyone that doesn't know, BF templates that look like the real thing can be acquired on line) or the trader was using play money.

Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:40 pm

Hi Bluesky

Interesting points.

Re: 'what works for one trader may cause another trader to lose money.' - Agreed. It's all about the detail. For example, some traders have been able to make money consistently from swing trading, whether others lose money consistently, finding that the market normally steam rollers through their position.

Re: 'One will often get conflicting advice from trading forums' - I think this is partly because of imprecise definitions. For example, 'scalping' may mean different things to different people. Also, traders - even successful ones - are often like the proverbial blind man feeling the elephant. They know what has worked for them, and make inferences on the basis of that about the nature of the market. Sometimes those inferences may hold, but sometimes they won't.

There was a trader on this forum who I won't name, who diligently followed the advice of the pros, quoting them in much the way that a biblical scholar might quote the disciples. However, despite being a clearly intelligent guy, he ended up quitting Betfair. I think the mistake he made was to leave his critical faculties at the door (also, he took pride in using stakes that made losing painful, which didn't help - it was like he saw losses as due to an error on his part, rather than a part of the game).

Re: 'It can be a little off putting when you see people posting good returns'. I belong to a dieters' forum on Facebook. When someone posts (usually honestly) that they have lost 13 lbs in their first week, it can make other dieters feel gutted when they 'only' lose 9lbs in their first week. It's irrational, but we humans aren't rational creatures. The same risk applies to people posting high returns here.

Other offputting things about forums are the bitchiness you get when you dare to express a controversial opinion - try constructively criticising one of Peter's videos and see what happens, for example :lol: - and the fact that edges shared are edges lost (for example, I won't be trying to profit from the recent fascinating football data thread, as once a group of traders knows about an edge it's unlikely to last long!).

All that said, occasionally I'll come across something in the forum which triggers an idea. Plus, credit where it's due, some forum members have been very helpful, including sharing ideas in private with me (in particular, a guy who I still correspond with - I won't name him, but he knows who he is).

Jeff

User avatar
LeTiss
Posts: 4177
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:04 pm

Great points Jeff

You are like a Wenger or Mourinho - great insight and managerial material, but like them struggled to do it as a player

Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:09 pm

In the immoral words of Marty McFly for those of us old enough to remember the original Back to the Future, 'the history's gonna change!'. :lol:

At present, I'm happy just playing with small stakes. I leave my spreadsheets running, go to work, and then think 'Hmmm - this may be profitable, so I'll try it for a few more days, and see what happens'. Or 'that approach lead to a horrible loss - what if I reverse it?'.

Make a few pennies, lose a few pennies, hopefully over time acquire a lot of knowledge. Or at least the basis of a profitable system!

BTW, I was going through this thread and came across a great post by Mugs, quoted by Bluesky - third down: http://www.betangel.com/forum/viewtopic ... &start=160

Jeff

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