Lammtarra, what you're experiencing is the difficulties of developing a trading mindset
You make profits on many markets, so you know how to get a green. Unfortunately, the psychological hurdle of accepting a red screen is difficult
Do you keep detailed ongoing accounts?
Have you noticed a rise in your %Strike Rate?
Have you noticed if there are particular markets, or market conditions that seem to trip you up regularly?
Appears simple but is devilishly difficult.
Dallas, your right about the shop thing. Funny how I never remember the times recently when I have traded out and saved money. I have a selective memory of things that annoy or irritate which in itself, is annoying 
But yes thank you, I am gradually improving.
Letiss, I've got to sort that part out because I do keep accounts, daily so I can see where I'm at at any point but I don't do the logical thing and take note of what race types, traded volume, how is the book split? 80% across 2 horses, 60% across 4 horses?
I leave alone races where the book is split to much because it makes it harder to identify moves (for me anyway) but you get the idea.
Things like that would qualify as "putting in the hardwork" because I should be recording and monitoring my performance when it's easier to just do some trading and not scrutinize the results.
As of Monday, I'll draw up a spreadsheet and keep tabs on this because that should help me further.
But yes thank you, I am gradually improving. Letiss, I've got to sort that part out because I do keep accounts, daily so I can see where I'm at at any point but I don't do the logical thing and take note of what race types, traded volume, how is the book split? 80% across 2 horses, 60% across 4 horses?
I leave alone races where the book is split to much because it makes it harder to identify moves (for me anyway) but you get the idea.
Things like that would qualify as "putting in the hardwork" because I should be recording and monitoring my performance when it's easier to just do some trading and not scrutinize the results.
As of Monday, I'll draw up a spreadsheet and keep tabs on this because that should help me further.
Not sure if it's been mentioned before but a lot of people like to use http://mybetlog.com/ for that purpose.Lammtarra wrote:Things like that would qualify as "putting in the hardwork" because I should be recording and monitoring my performance when it's easier to just do some trading and not scrutinize the results.
As of Monday, I'll draw up a spreadsheet and keep tabs on this because that should help me further.
If your only looking to make 1 percent per day, why are you trading?
Wouldn't you be better off choosing the worst horse of the day and laying it at sp and compounding it per day? a horse around 100-1
100 - 99 = 1 percent
If you have the patience for 1 percent a day maybe laying 1 horse at 100 to 1 would be a better option.
hope that helps
Wouldn't you be better off choosing the worst horse of the day and laying it at sp and compounding it per day? a horse around 100-1
100 - 99 = 1 percent
If you have the patience for 1 percent a day maybe laying 1 horse at 100 to 1 would be a better option.
hope that helps
Kai - Thanks for that, very helpful.
Horseplay - That sounds like a silly idea to me.....
I'm in no way qualified to give advice but I have an opinion never the less and I think that sounds daft.
I would always be at a disadvantage because I couldn't lay a 100/1 at 101.00 so straight away I'm destined to lose, incidentally what happens when, however unlikely, one goes in?
Maybe your right but I'll leave that thanks.
Horseplay - That sounds like a silly idea to me.....
I'm in no way qualified to give advice but I have an opinion never the less and I think that sounds daft.
I would always be at a disadvantage because I couldn't lay a 100/1 at 101.00 so straight away I'm destined to lose, incidentally what happens when, however unlikely, one goes in?
Maybe your right but I'll leave that thanks.
Sorry just figured would help you , instead of spending thousands at start to get 1 percent, I figured if you could find 100 to 1 horse at sp at betfair then you would only have to risk 100 for your 1 percent, cause 100 minus 1 is 99 = 101, good luck wit your ventures hope it works out for you.
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bennyboy351
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- Location: West Midlands, England.
I've layed rank -outsiders in the past and seen them romp home and leave me well out of pocket! Too Risky! LOLhorseplay wrote:If your only looking to make 1 percent per day, why are you trading?
Wouldn't you be better off choosing the worst horse of the day and laying it at sp and compounding it per day? a horse around 100-1
100 - 99 = 1 percent
If you have the patience for 1 percent a day maybe laying 1 horse at 100 to 1 would be a better option.
hope that helps
I've took another small step forward I think 
Had that loss last Wednesday and since then, I've not had a losing day which is something.
I stake 5% of my bank and adjust the figure every day, it's surprising how quick profits can mount up if you avoid the bigger losses.
I'm up to £237.38 so it's going the right way and I'm pleased that it appears I'm moving up a level from the mess I've been in previously.
Joined up mybetlog but am going round in circles at the moment as I've not got a clue what I'm meant to be looking at. I think I'll draw up my own spreadsheet that I enter the trades on.
I've been really busy at work and actually missed a day earlier in the week but I didn't stress over it. I don't go home and put the computer on and carry on trading like I used to and I really do try to trade in a calm, level headed way.
I'm not in anyway qualified to give advice to anyone but speaking for myself, I find now that if a trade goes against me, I don't get out straight away.
This is probably wrong but (depending on the price) I might let it run 6 ticks or so before I take the hit rather than just get straight out. I find more often than not, it will go my way if I show a bit patience and not panic when something goes wrong.
If it isn't going to go for me, I will eventually take the red but even if I do, I try my hardest to trade the next race in isolation, detached from what just happened. Ive been doing that for the last week and my results are improving for sure.
I know targets aren't necessarily a good thing but I have 2 targets:
1 - Get my bank to £500
2 - Then to £1,000
I have figured that the bank will double every 70 days at 1% and whilst I know it might become harder using more money because some things aren't scaleable and that I can't keep doubling up at that rate, the £1k is the real target for me.
It would mean that given time, I could turn it into £2k which would roughly earn £1k per month. At that point I've made it because even though it's no where near enough to give up my job for, it is starting to become serious money and there's no reason why I couldn't one day end up earning circa £30k per year being a full time trader.
Does that sound like a pipe dream to you guys or do you think it's possible and sounds realistic?
I've had that in my head from the start and I've always wondered what the people who've done it, been there got the t-shirt, think of it?
I had scheduled to hit £1k on 5th May next year but I am ahead of schedule at the moment so at this rate it would be 24th April.
I've got a feeling I ought to take cover
as some of you might think this sounds suspiciously like a "I wanna earn £300 a day, can you tell me how to do it please" It isn't meant to come across that way if it does.
Had that loss last Wednesday and since then, I've not had a losing day which is something.
I stake 5% of my bank and adjust the figure every day, it's surprising how quick profits can mount up if you avoid the bigger losses.
I'm up to £237.38 so it's going the right way and I'm pleased that it appears I'm moving up a level from the mess I've been in previously.
Joined up mybetlog but am going round in circles at the moment as I've not got a clue what I'm meant to be looking at. I think I'll draw up my own spreadsheet that I enter the trades on.
I've been really busy at work and actually missed a day earlier in the week but I didn't stress over it. I don't go home and put the computer on and carry on trading like I used to and I really do try to trade in a calm, level headed way.
I'm not in anyway qualified to give advice to anyone but speaking for myself, I find now that if a trade goes against me, I don't get out straight away.
This is probably wrong but (depending on the price) I might let it run 6 ticks or so before I take the hit rather than just get straight out. I find more often than not, it will go my way if I show a bit patience and not panic when something goes wrong.
If it isn't going to go for me, I will eventually take the red but even if I do, I try my hardest to trade the next race in isolation, detached from what just happened. Ive been doing that for the last week and my results are improving for sure.
I know targets aren't necessarily a good thing but I have 2 targets:
1 - Get my bank to £500
2 - Then to £1,000
I have figured that the bank will double every 70 days at 1% and whilst I know it might become harder using more money because some things aren't scaleable and that I can't keep doubling up at that rate, the £1k is the real target for me.
It would mean that given time, I could turn it into £2k which would roughly earn £1k per month. At that point I've made it because even though it's no where near enough to give up my job for, it is starting to become serious money and there's no reason why I couldn't one day end up earning circa £30k per year being a full time trader.
Does that sound like a pipe dream to you guys or do you think it's possible and sounds realistic?
I've had that in my head from the start and I've always wondered what the people who've done it, been there got the t-shirt, think of it?
I had scheduled to hit £1k on 5th May next year but I am ahead of schedule at the moment so at this rate it would be 24th April.
I've got a feeling I ought to take cover
as some of you might think this sounds suspiciously like a "I wanna earn £300 a day, can you tell me how to do it please" It isn't meant to come across that way if it does.
When you never posted on mon/tue i feared the worst had happened and that dreaded red mist had once again decended for you but so glad to hear it has not and that your still on the right path.
LeTiss 4pm once famously said "Its what traders do when faced with a red screen that seperates the profitable ones from those who lose" When swing trading there is no set amount of ticks that should adheared to as a stop - what you should be doing is have a mental note in your head before you even open a position where your going to allow it to get to before you close out and accept you where wrong on this occasion or you might determin that if you see the odds of X runner/s move past this that is also reason to close out as your initial assement now may be incorrect.
When you have a mental view of where your going to allow the price to get to but its gets there by a single large order or similar then you can take the desision not to close immedietly and allow a few more seconds and ticks for things to settle but you should only be allowing this if the condtions of the rest of the market have not changed significantly and this is only short term and is every chance the price will retrace and then move as you expected.
Long Term Goals & Targets - Yes
Time Frames & Set Dates - NO
Time frames and preset dates only create problems so my advice is to forget these and just let things happen at there own pace, having a time limit means once you start to fall behind reaching it your trading desisions will change as you try to force trades to make up lost ground, they will also change as you try to protect the ground you may have already made up if your ahead of your schedual.
Earning 30K a year Is not a pipe dream because it is realistically possible and being done by many, providng you continue as you are and take each race and day as it comes and dont get hung up on on achiving anything by any specific date or time then there is nothing to stop it happening for you.
LeTiss 4pm once famously said "Its what traders do when faced with a red screen that seperates the profitable ones from those who lose" When swing trading there is no set amount of ticks that should adheared to as a stop - what you should be doing is have a mental note in your head before you even open a position where your going to allow it to get to before you close out and accept you where wrong on this occasion or you might determin that if you see the odds of X runner/s move past this that is also reason to close out as your initial assement now may be incorrect.
When you have a mental view of where your going to allow the price to get to but its gets there by a single large order or similar then you can take the desision not to close immedietly and allow a few more seconds and ticks for things to settle but you should only be allowing this if the condtions of the rest of the market have not changed significantly and this is only short term and is every chance the price will retrace and then move as you expected.
Long Term Goals & Targets - Yes
Time Frames & Set Dates - NO
Time frames and preset dates only create problems so my advice is to forget these and just let things happen at there own pace, having a time limit means once you start to fall behind reaching it your trading desisions will change as you try to force trades to make up lost ground, they will also change as you try to protect the ground you may have already made up if your ahead of your schedual.
Earning 30K a year Is not a pipe dream because it is realistically possible and being done by many, providng you continue as you are and take each race and day as it comes and dont get hung up on on achiving anything by any specific date or time then there is nothing to stop it happening for you.
That's good to know Dallas that at least my income goals are possible. I'm a bugger for setting dates and times, I feel lost without them because I don't know whether I'm on target or not but I guess that's the whole idea
I am going into this weekend promising to myself that I'm going to be extra disciplined because I have a track record of making an effort to trade properly with success, then I come on here and say that and then when I next trade, I get a bit slack, lazy, greedy and all the effort I'd made upto that point is wasted because I have a big loss.
This time I'm going to be on the ball today and tomorrow with a view to post up my balance on Monday.
If I don't cock it up and carry on doing it the way I have been, it'll be the FIRST WHOLE WEEK I've ever traded "properly" that'll be a major confidence boost if I can actually say next Monday, that I traded a whole week, cutting out losses and keeping it under control.
I'll do my best........
I am going into this weekend promising to myself that I'm going to be extra disciplined because I have a track record of making an effort to trade properly with success, then I come on here and say that and then when I next trade, I get a bit slack, lazy, greedy and all the effort I'd made upto that point is wasted because I have a big loss.
This time I'm going to be on the ball today and tomorrow with a view to post up my balance on Monday.
If I don't cock it up and carry on doing it the way I have been, it'll be the FIRST WHOLE WEEK I've ever traded "properly" that'll be a major confidence boost if I can actually say next Monday, that I traded a whole week, cutting out losses and keeping it under control.
I'll do my best........
Went to work yesterday knowing that the net was down and a bit annoyed as it was decent racing and I couldn't trade when all of a sudden.........ding! it worked so I was able to do my stuff.......
Firstly, I got lucky Friday night (trading, not with a chick)
I want to get into football trading and have played at it over the last 2 years winning some, losing more, giving up, rinse and repeat......
This time I've decided that I am slowly starting to turn the corner on the horses and don't want to over trade or over commit my bank or simply get involved with something I don't understand and whilst I can imagine many of you grimacing at this, I like the idea of LTD.
I have a view rightly or wrongly that every stratagy has a suitable match or race and as a professional trader, it would be my job to pair them up. I have decided that with carefull match selection and a plan as to what do if this happens or that happens, I will try it gently, so I have.
I started this on Friday night with the Boro V QPR match
Layed it to £5 and waited. Had a stinking cold and went to bed knackered at 8.30pm with the match on my Ipad, I was really, really tired and the match was approaching half time at 0-0, you can guess what happened....
I heard my Ipad hit the floor in the night and still didn't respond, I was out of it. My first thought yesterday morning was "wasn't I doing something with football last night? and then I remembered Oh Shit I didn't trade out. D***, F***, T***, B*****X let me see what happened please please please go my way for once, and it did - 93rd min penalty.
Poor form I know but I'll take that, I'd have only lost £15 or so but that's not the point.
I made a right mess of the silviano conti, cue card race and was bloody annoyed because I had called it right first time and this is something I've got to work on with my trading. I lay a horse which I think is going to drift for it come in a bit, I decide I've got it wrong and get out and then 2 mins later it's drifting like a bitch. I didn't lose any money but could have won some there that's for sure.
So going into this week my bank is now £249.14 and I'm now adding football to my plan but only gently. Done three matches yesterday all to a fiver and took a hit on one, won almost my whole stake on one and won a few pence on the other so not bad.
This time though, I am going to trade out, like I do on the horses for a red if I have to. I've always done this with good intentions which descend to just hoping and praying like risking £1200 on the Madrid game in the Champions League.
It's no good for my nerves and I'm not risking my bank like it anymore.
I'll keep you posted...
Firstly, I got lucky Friday night (trading, not with a chick)
I want to get into football trading and have played at it over the last 2 years winning some, losing more, giving up, rinse and repeat......
This time I've decided that I am slowly starting to turn the corner on the horses and don't want to over trade or over commit my bank or simply get involved with something I don't understand and whilst I can imagine many of you grimacing at this, I like the idea of LTD.
I have a view rightly or wrongly that every stratagy has a suitable match or race and as a professional trader, it would be my job to pair them up. I have decided that with carefull match selection and a plan as to what do if this happens or that happens, I will try it gently, so I have.
I started this on Friday night with the Boro V QPR match
Layed it to £5 and waited. Had a stinking cold and went to bed knackered at 8.30pm with the match on my Ipad, I was really, really tired and the match was approaching half time at 0-0, you can guess what happened....I heard my Ipad hit the floor in the night and still didn't respond, I was out of it. My first thought yesterday morning was "wasn't I doing something with football last night? and then I remembered Oh Shit I didn't trade out. D***, F***, T***, B*****X let me see what happened please please please go my way for once, and it did - 93rd min penalty.
Poor form I know but I'll take that, I'd have only lost £15 or so but that's not the point. I made a right mess of the silviano conti, cue card race and was bloody annoyed because I had called it right first time and this is something I've got to work on with my trading. I lay a horse which I think is going to drift for it come in a bit, I decide I've got it wrong and get out and then 2 mins later it's drifting like a bitch. I didn't lose any money but could have won some there that's for sure.
So going into this week my bank is now £249.14 and I'm now adding football to my plan but only gently. Done three matches yesterday all to a fiver and took a hit on one, won almost my whole stake on one and won a few pence on the other so not bad.
This time though, I am going to trade out, like I do on the horses for a red if I have to. I've always done this with good intentions which descend to just hoping and praying like risking £1200 on the Madrid game in the Champions League.
It's no good for my nerves and I'm not risking my bank like it anymore.
I'll keep you posted...
Last edited by ewgrhr on Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Disaster..................it was all going so well until Wednesday as well.
To save writing a thousand words, I'll put it very bluntly.
Started trading on Wednesday, had a good Sat and Mon and Tue, looked forward to Wednesdays trading so started on first race, trade went against me, got out, went back in got in wrong again, went back in again and my red increased and increased and in the space of 10mins, had gone from calm and focused to angry and fearful because the red was far, far too big. £40 on a £260 bank in 1 trade.
I spent the rest of the week chasing it and on Sat got to within a few quid (literally) of my £260 and went just one more time.....and lost and lost again.
My bank is now £141.50.
I had pondered with the idea of:
1 - Keep chasing it and hoping
2 - Put more money in and just make up the difference
3 - Stop chasing and start of the revised figure.
I was close to sticking £600 on Klitschko to win back my loss but I luckily came to my senses and accepted my loss to that point and didn't bother with the boxing.
I know I'll never win if I don't handle losses properly and that's why I didn't do it.
I am surprisingly calm and have accepted what I've done as a setback but nothing more. I had made good progress mentally in the last month and really started to think that I had outgrown the not accepting a loss thing.
It just shows that it's just under surface and is still there. I've come a long way though and I'm not going to let those few days of stupidity reverse all the progress I've made.
I can pay money in whenever I like but am not going to throw good money after bad, I think that when I reach £1,000, I might put a couple of hundred in as a "boost" but only when I've proved I can trade clean for a sustained period of time.
It's put me back 6 weeks or so in real terms so not the end of the world.
To save writing a thousand words, I'll put it very bluntly.
Started trading on Wednesday, had a good Sat and Mon and Tue, looked forward to Wednesdays trading so started on first race, trade went against me, got out, went back in got in wrong again, went back in again and my red increased and increased and in the space of 10mins, had gone from calm and focused to angry and fearful because the red was far, far too big. £40 on a £260 bank in 1 trade.
I spent the rest of the week chasing it and on Sat got to within a few quid (literally) of my £260 and went just one more time.....and lost and lost again.
My bank is now £141.50.
I had pondered with the idea of:
1 - Keep chasing it and hoping
2 - Put more money in and just make up the difference
3 - Stop chasing and start of the revised figure.
I was close to sticking £600 on Klitschko to win back my loss but I luckily came to my senses and accepted my loss to that point and didn't bother with the boxing.
I know I'll never win if I don't handle losses properly and that's why I didn't do it.
I am surprisingly calm and have accepted what I've done as a setback but nothing more. I had made good progress mentally in the last month and really started to think that I had outgrown the not accepting a loss thing.
It just shows that it's just under surface and is still there. I've come a long way though and I'm not going to let those few days of stupidity reverse all the progress I've made.
I can pay money in whenever I like but am not going to throw good money after bad, I think that when I reach £1,000, I might put a couple of hundred in as a "boost" but only when I've proved I can trade clean for a sustained period of time.
It's put me back 6 weeks or so in real terms so not the end of the world.
The original red trade you had, I suspect was due to overstaking on that selection's price. You then made reckless trades to recover your position
The mistakes you're making are the same mistakes many make. The ones who fail though, are the ones that cannot escape that rush of blood. The ones who succeed, are the the traders that manage to stay disciplined and emotionally in control
You clearly still have many hurdles to jump before you start hitting the tape
The mistakes you're making are the same mistakes many make. The ones who fail though, are the ones that cannot escape that rush of blood. The ones who succeed, are the the traders that manage to stay disciplined and emotionally in control
You clearly still have many hurdles to jump before you start hitting the tape