Bet Angel for newbies / Getting started : Appears simple but is devilishly difficult.

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LeTiss
Posts: 4164
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:25 am

Overstaking was my problem early doors, possibly due to me having been a punter before I arrived here

I combated this problem by making my trading all about ticks after greening, as opposed to money.

Therefore, I calculted all my stakes on what I wanted to target per tick on each trade

Example, if I was aiming for £1 after greening - backing a 1.80 shot would be £180, laying a 1.80 shot would see a liability of £144.80. Backing a 3.55 gave me stakes of £71, laying gave me a liability of £183.60

I wouldn't be here now, if I hadn't done this - why?

Everytime I lost a trade, I found it easier to lock out and recover emotionally and mentally. It meant that losing 4 ticks wasn't so bad, as rather than trying to win 'x' amount, I only needed 4 ticks instead. Gradually, due to me becoming more emotionally calm and targeting ticks rather than money - the money just followed automatically. As my bank increased, so did my tick sizes, but I always felt in control

I've asked Peter many times to include 'Tick size with greening' on the dropdown staking plan, but for some reason he thinks it's a shit idea, but I beg to differ......like I say I wouldn't be here now if I hadn't changed that approach

Kai
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm
Location: Croatia

Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:38 am

It's good that you provided more details but sorry to say that you sound like an emotional wreck after that last post. I know how emotionally draining trading can be when you're starting out and you are clearly desperate to succeed, but such outpour of emotion on such small stakes is a clear sign that you personalize every trade and every loss, if you go on an emotional rollercoaster ride every day with small stakes I'm not sure how that's gonna look like with bigger stakes. Despite all the advice from various people you still lack real focus (imho), you're still just tunneling on the money itself, whilst you should be focusing on executing the best possible trades and the money will eventually come on it's own as a direct result of that. Just like LeTiss said, focus on the ticks intead of the money itself, same principle.

Forgot to say in my last post that I know a couple of full timers from my area that definitely do not have a trader's mindset and they openly admit it, they make massive blunders on a regular basis, chase losses, leave a trade open as a bet when they get fed up etc, but despite all of that they still come out heavily on top at the end because their edge is strong. That was my whole point in case you missed it, the stronger your edge the weaker your mindset "can" be and vice versa.

Btw if your SO is not supportive try and use that as motivation instead of a hindrance, it would feel great if you proved her wrong once and for all.

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Dallas
Posts: 7679
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm

Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:58 am

With your state of mind the way it is over losses has have you tried reading some books? not necessarily on sports trading directly but on getting into the right frame of mind and the psychology needed to accept losses and succeed.

There are some good ones through this thread you might want to add to your xmas list
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78&hilit=new+books

or a quick search on google will point you in the right direction.

Lammtarra
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 pm

Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:50 am

Letiss, I like the idea of setting the tick size so I will try that approach this week. It makes sense as well and takes the £££££ targets and goals out of the equation.
I just haven't done it before because I suppose it's easier to stick to what your familiar with.....It could be of course, that I'm just in my default position of trying to win as much as possible in the shortest time with the least effort? Sticking 80% of my bank on a horse is one way to do that I guess. Comes at a cost though......

Kai, your right what you say about my focus or lack of. It is only on the money rather than the actual trading that provides the money. I used to say to my personal trainer how am I going to run quicker, he said don't worry about the time, just keep the running up and the time will look after itself. Along similar lines to this really, good, clean trading, sensible money management and the money will look after itself.

Maybe it sounded worse than it was and portrayed me to be an emotional wreck but I'm perfectly normal. Maybe in the same way an alcoholic is adamant they don't need the drink.
I think it's clear with all the evidence so far that I have a low pain threshold or more specifically a low level of tolerance which needs working on.

Dallas, no I haven't bothered with this I'm ashamed to say. I've watched a Mark Douglas thing on Youtube for 6 hours or so but not really read books.

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Dallas
Posts: 7679
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm

Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:58 am

If you have nt read any i would strongly advise you check the thread i sent last message and read some that focus on the mindset and are aimed the the areas you are struggling with.

Never under estimate how much the right book/s can change your whole outlook especially with things like banks, money, risk etc

Kai
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm
Location: Croatia

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:01 pm

Apologies if I'm not allowed to post this but maybe this is the book that would benefit you most, "The Daily trading coach - 101 lessons for becoming your own trading psychologist", you can download a pdf version of it here https://atoast2trading.files.wordpress. ... 9_-a23.pdf

And then there's the obvious choice of "Trading in the zone" as well, you can find almost any such book online with a quick search in a pdf format if you don't want to actually pay for it.

I'm not really into books myself but a lot of people recommend those so you can't go wrong with that, a good book can explain things much more eloquently than any of us here on the forum.

Lammtarra
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 pm

Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:13 pm

Thanks for that chaps,

I will get my hands on one at least and start bedtime reading because mindset is everything in this game, even I know that so it really should be a priority for me.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Lammtarra
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 pm

Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:23 pm

I'm having a nightmare with this tick size thing.

I can only assume I'm either a) missing something or b) a bit dense because my understanding of this is that if I set tick size to 50p, each tick movement up or down will be 50p. It adjusts my stakes to ensure 50p value of movement, i.e tick.

I have messed around with this all afternoon and from odds on shots, 2-3 price ranges, whatever it maybe, it never returns my desired value.

So testing this while I'm typing this, I've just placed at lay bet at 5.3 and the tick value is 0.04. It has adjusted my stake to £2.50. I have it set in the box at 0.25 and when I go on the one click screen, I can see that it has adjusted all the stakes for me but never returns 0.25.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Dallas
Posts: 7679
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm

Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:37 pm

When you enter your tick size make sure you have the auto update box just below ticked, then on the stake buttons at the top of each ladder make sure your selecting the updated stakes (these are on the left of the stake buttons in blue and pink boxes) and not using any of your preset stake amounts.

Then when placing the bets (and this is what LeTiss was refering to earlier) the tick size you have entered does not include greening - to make sure you have done everything right when you place your bet if you click on the scales icon (disable greening) the figures in your P&L colum should now show the amount per tick you want.

Best playing with it in practice mode till you know you have it set right

Lammtarra
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 pm

Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:00 pm

Just about to go now but had a quick look just in case anyone had replied.......

Thanks Dallas, I'll get my teeth into this tomorrow and let you how I get on.

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