I think was David Cameron out of order for slapping down the lord who last week commented about the economy, and the peer who has just voiced an opinion about child benefit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11837538).
All they are guilty of is expressing their opinions frankly. Those views may have been offensive to some people. Tough. It's important for democracy that a wide range of opinions are brought into the public arena. And I applaud the peers for having the courage to say what they really think, rather than hiding behind bland, PR-approved language and views.
Whatever happened to free speech in this country?!?
Jeff
Lords a leapin' (to apologise)
Hi Jeff
I must say that although I do not agree with everything said I do agree that they have the right to express their opinions.
I don't think that free speach exists any more.
It would appear that you cannot debate real issues any more without being labelled.
I must say that although I do not agree with everything said I do agree that they have the right to express their opinions.
I don't think that free speach exists any more.
It would appear that you cannot debate real issues any more without being labelled.
Absolutely.
It comes to something when you can even end up in court for expressing certain views! OK, those views may be undesirable, but at least if they're out in the open they can be challenged.
And don't get me started on employment law, where a bit of friendly banter or a relevant question can land you in front of a tribunal! I think this article hits the nail on the head: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwes ... h-history/
Jeff
It comes to something when you can even end up in court for expressing certain views! OK, those views may be undesirable, but at least if they're out in the open they can be challenged.
And don't get me started on employment law, where a bit of friendly banter or a relevant question can land you in front of a tribunal! I think this article hits the nail on the head: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwes ... h-history/
Jeff
Dobbin wrote:Hi Jeff
I must say that although I do not agree with everything said I do agree that they have the right to express their opinions.
I don't think that free speach exists any more.
It would appear that you cannot debate real issues any more without being labelled.
cameron is trying to dispel the image that the tory party are the "nasty party".
he does not wish people to remember the negative social impact some of their policies had the last time they were in power.
He knows full well that in the coming months things will probably get bad and potentially make the student demos look like a walk in the park. He needs to portray his party as understanding and tolerant, that we are all in it together (financial crisis)...
He knows he as to keep a tight grip on any statements that could cause potential offence to any significant group in particular low paid people in all sectors, especially as the front bench looks like an eton school reunion. Bit hard to preach we are all in it together when 18 cabinet ministers are millionaires, and expect the opposition not to capitalise on it.
he does not wish people to remember the negative social impact some of their policies had the last time they were in power.
He knows full well that in the coming months things will probably get bad and potentially make the student demos look like a walk in the park. He needs to portray his party as understanding and tolerant, that we are all in it together (financial crisis)...
He knows he as to keep a tight grip on any statements that could cause potential offence to any significant group in particular low paid people in all sectors, especially as the front bench looks like an eton school reunion. Bit hard to preach we are all in it together when 18 cabinet ministers are millionaires, and expect the opposition not to capitalise on it.
I haven't followed the story all that much but I don't think he's in hot water over his comments on child benefit or student fees but for for commenting on how Britons "had never had it so good". Ministers have been known to get in trouble for seeing "green shoots" of economic recovery.
It seems that we don't have to be only in recession but we need to be seen to be in recession.
People have freedom of expression but I don't want to see people in power of position to be have one-sided view and act on it. Politician need to discuss, debate & work best approach to problem facing the country and implment them in the most effective and beneficial way. Anyway, I don't want to get on my soapbox but on contrary, Flight's comment on child benefit reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo
It seems that we don't have to be only in recession but we need to be seen to be in recession.
People have freedom of expression but I don't want to see people in power of position to be have one-sided view and act on it. Politician need to discuss, debate & work best approach to problem facing the country and implment them in the most effective and beneficial way. Anyway, I don't want to get on my soapbox but on contrary, Flight's comment on child benefit reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo
I can understand Cameron's position. But by acting as he did, rather than just saying 'I disagree with the views expressed, but everyone's entitled to their personal opinion', he risks giving the impression that he's desperate to keep the cat from getting out of the bag.
I also think that the Tories are wrong to avoid at all costs looking in any way illiberal or right-wing. I think most people in this country are fed up of political correctness, and would welcome a ballsy, no-nonsense leader who isn't afraid of telling it like he sees it. I don't recall Mrs Thatcher ever having to share power with the Lib Dems...
Jeff
I also think that the Tories are wrong to avoid at all costs looking in any way illiberal or right-wing. I think most people in this country are fed up of political correctness, and would welcome a ballsy, no-nonsense leader who isn't afraid of telling it like he sees it. I don't recall Mrs Thatcher ever having to share power with the Lib Dems...
Jeff
to75ne wrote:cameron is trying to dispel the image that the tory party are the "nasty party".
he does not wish people to remember the negative social impact some of their policies had the last time they were in power.
He knows full well that in the coming months things will probably get bad and potentially make the student demos look like a walk in the park. He needs to portray his party as understanding and tolerant, that we are all in it together (financial crisis)...
He knows he as to keep a tight grip on any statements that could cause potential offence to any significant group in particular low paid people in all sectors, especially as the front bench looks like an eton school reunion. Bit hard to preach we are all in it together when 18 cabinet ministers are millionaires, and expect the opposition not to capitalise on it.
Hi Npatel
I disagree with the 'never had it so good comment'. But I think the lord had the right to express his opinion. BTW, Theo Paphithis of Dragon's Den agrees with him: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11805317.
I think Mr Flight shouldn't have used the language he used - to talk about people 'breeding' is disrespectful. But he raises an interesting point. If working people have fewer children, and people on benefits have more children, then that doesn't necessarily bode well for the future of this country...
Jeff
I disagree with the 'never had it so good comment'. But I think the lord had the right to express his opinion. BTW, Theo Paphithis of Dragon's Den agrees with him: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11805317.
I think Mr Flight shouldn't have used the language he used - to talk about people 'breeding' is disrespectful. But he raises an interesting point. If working people have fewer children, and people on benefits have more children, then that doesn't necessarily bode well for the future of this country...
Jeff
npatel999 wrote:I haven't followed the story all that much but I don't think he's in hot water over his comments on child benefit or student fees but for for commenting on how Britons "had never had it so good". Ministers have been known to get in trouble for seeing "green shoots" of economic recovery.
It seems that we don't have to be only in recession but we need to be seen to be in recession.
People have freedom of expression but I don't want to see people in power of position to be have one-sided view and act on it. Politician need to discuss, debate & work best approach to problem facing the country and implment them in the most effective and beneficial way. Anyway, I don't want to get on my soapbox but on contrary, Flight's comment on child benefit reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo
jeff
Its called politics. Cameron, miliband and the rest are their to protect vested interests, of cause cameron does not wish the cat to get out of the bag. Whatever they are up to, whatever their long term planning is for, its not for the benefit of the country, the people, the greater good etc.
The art of war by some jap warrior/samurai from a different thread, did you really read it
Its called politics. Cameron, miliband and the rest are their to protect vested interests, of cause cameron does not wish the cat to get out of the bag. Whatever they are up to, whatever their long term planning is for, its not for the benefit of the country, the people, the greater good etc.
The art of war by some jap warrior/samurai from a different thread, did you really read it
I know what it's called... 
But I think it's self-defeating politics. Cameron is a bit like a trader who's so afraid of a loss that he doesn't make good trades...
Jeff
But I think it's self-defeating politics. Cameron is a bit like a trader who's so afraid of a loss that he doesn't make good trades...
Jeff
to75ne wrote:jeff
Its called politics. Cameron, miliband and the rest are their to protect vested interests, of cause cameron does not wish the cat to get out of the bag. Whatever they are up to, whatever their long term planning is for, its not for the benefit of the country, the people, the greater good etc.
lolFerru123 wrote:I know what it's called...
But I think it's self-defeating politics. Cameron is a bit like a trader who's so afraid of a loss that he doesn't make good trades...
Jeff
jeff,
Despite their lying, cheating, manipulative, sleazy, dishonest, bent, underhanded talents, I don’t think they would make good traders, apart from spoofing. Ultimately you have to have a high degree of self control and you have to be honest and truthful to yourself. Negative characteristics in any politician.
I think being truthful to oneself is a good characteristic for a politician to have - as long as they're careful about being truthful to the public!
BTW, on the topic of gaffes, I like this one from a possible future president who clearly has a Bush Jr like grasp of foreign affairs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11840828
Jeff
BTW, on the topic of gaffes, I like this one from a possible future president who clearly has a Bush Jr like grasp of foreign affairs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11840828
Jeff
to75ne wrote:
Despite their lying, cheating, manipulative, sleazy, dishonest, bent, underhanded talents, I don’t think they would make good traders, apart from spoofing. Ultimately you have to have a high degree of self control and you have to be honest and truthful to yourself. Negative characteristics in any politician.