Betfair morning WAP

Discussion regarding the spreadsheet functionality of Bet Angel.
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rinconpaul
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Not sure if anyone relies on the 11:00 am Weighted Average Price from the analysis point of view. In AUS the liquidity is such that there is very little traded on a weekday country race meeting, let alone a night trots meeting, before 11:00 am. However Betfair produce all this data which suggest fully matched prices for all runners! Even massive volume prior to 11:00 am, when we all know and can demonstrate with screenshots, almost nothing's traded.

Well I'm sick of this fiction. I've written to the local Betfair branch, they agree there's a discrepancy, and blame the UK arm. Why are these inaccuracies allowed to continue? Using a disclaimer on accuracy of data presented, doesn't abrogate corporate responsibility to not continue with the charade IMO. Even if they would just come out and admit it's a weighted average taken 'X' time before the jump. Is it, or is it a complete fabrication? Anyway I'm pursuing this one until I get an answer, or they remove all contrived data.
spreadbetting
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Have they confirmed they're using local time as opposed to some arbitrary time. Aus is a big place with no doubt various timezones.

Now everything has moved back to Ireland it wouldn't surprise me if they took the easiest option.
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Dallas
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They could even be using 11am UK time which could be just a matter of hours after they open the markets
LinusP
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Dallas wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:56 am
They could even be using 11am UK time which could be just a matter of hours after they open the markets
My mine is on this but after the races have finished and hence the high volume.
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Dallas
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LinusP wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 2:51 pm
Dallas wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:56 am
They could even be using 11am UK time which could be just a matter of hours after they open the markets
My mine is on this but after the races have finished and hence the high volume.
I slightly Misread the OP so would agree with the way Liam has said, either way i think there def stamping it with the UK time.

It might also be worth downloading some data from before they moved the end point to the UK last year just to see if it stated from then or not.
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rinconpaul
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Their data file index says 11:00am GMT. Considering you're 9 hrs behind AUS East Coast time, that'd be 2am in AUS and everyone's in bed? It doesn't make sense as they produce the same data for RSA, IRE, USA etc, all with wildly different time zones. Even Australia with Daylight saving can have up to 3 hrs difference across the country. You can only assume their computer uses local time wherever the event occurs, but I know that's not correct. It's not only the morning WAP but morning traded vol is also way out.
Take a Trots race Melton R11 9:13pm on a Monday night. The morning vol (up to 11:00am) was $38,924, the PP vol 10hrs later was $29,030 and In Play vol $5,041. They're imitating that more money was placed in the morning than through the day and evening. There would be less than $300 bet before 11:00am!

I know betfair data is error prone, but this is like taking a Spanish class and being taught German! Can't find any reasoning for how they invent this data? It's wildly misleading. Anyways, I've asked the question of them and hopefully won't get the "all care, no responsibility" reply? When you think about it, does anyone independent ever audit what they put out?
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rinconpaul
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Sorry might've stuffed my times? If your 9hrs behind us, 11am GMT would be 8:00pm here, so the races are mostly over. Taking that further and using the example at Melton I gave, the race starts at 9:13pm
PP Vol is $29,030. Is morning Vol then $38,924 less $29,030 less $5041(In Play) = $4853??
Unlikely, who knows, just doesn't add up!
seanmac
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:48 am

Regarding betfair data.

I downloaded the april 2017 file and for oz they have data for the 24th? and onwards.

The simple point being that the file is no where complete.

And the data therein?

Cheers Sean
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rinconpaul
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:39 pm

This is the link: https://promo.betfair.com/betfairsp/prices/index.php and data for UK is available to 1/06/2017 and AUS 31/05/2017. The file date is always for the previous day races.
I had an enquiry confirmation email today from Betfair Customer Service AUS :

"We had to forward your enquiry to UK Betfair as unfortunately we in Australia do not know where the data concerning "MorningWAP" is being generated from.
It might take a while to get a proper response, but as soon as I do , I will let you know
."

I'm embarrassed, that a major player in the Betfair family tree (AUS) hasn't got a clue! I'm sure a response from Betfair UK won't be forthcoming either? When you think about it, the numbers you see bouncing around on your screen, how REAL are they? We all assume they're the real deal?

I should be able to post screen shots of horses trading history at 11:00am yesterday AUS time and compare it with Betfair's file (probably published overnight), tomorrow.
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rinconpaul
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Solved the riddle? The 11:00am GMT is right. In effect morning WAP and VOL reflects the sum of PP and IP trades after the race is run in AUS. In the UK where you're in daylight saving time (GMT+1), it is a snapshot of betting activity taken at 12:00 midday. Therefore all countries that have timezones different than Greenwich Mean time impacts on the value of Betfair's data worthiness. To conclude, basically worthless information! That's why they give it away free. Says a lot about the esteem they have for their clients, hey?
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gstar1975
Posts: 615
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rinconpaul wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:51 pm
Solved the riddle? The 11:00am GMT is right. In effect morning WAP and VOL reflects the sum of PP and IP trades after the race is run in AUS. In the UK where you're in daylight saving time (GMT+1), it is a snapshot of betting activity taken at 12:00 midday. Therefore all countries that have timezones different than Greenwich Mean time impacts on the value of Betfair's data worthiness. To conclude, basically worthless information! That's why they give it away free. Says a lot about the esteem they have for their clients, hey?
So how would we be able (using BetAngel) to get a snapshot of the MWAP at 11am and store that info for ourselves?
Jukebox
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:07 pm

VWAP is available to store as a value using a 'set/modify a stored value only' rule - and can be saved to the log if required. Rules can be set to fire at a fixed time eg: 11:00:00 which will refer to your own pc's clock. Good Luck
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bernal
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so morning WAP is data only for finished races ? ( im asking for only UK and IRE races ) ?
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