Huge stakes on lay side of 1.01 odds every time

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jamesedwards
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spreadbetting wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:33 pm
Been 10 more since then , 2 yesterday dunno if any from today. Not as rare as people think but being first in the queue means you've more chance of profiting.
Anyone know how Betfair manage their queues? It certainly is not as simple as first in first matched. Either they let their bots push in front or the queue is not managed as you would expect.
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Dallas
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jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:58 pm
spreadbetting wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:33 pm
Been 10 more since then , 2 yesterday dunno if any from today. Not as rare as people think but being first in the queue means you've more chance of profiting.
Anyone know how Betfair manage their queues? It certainly is not as simple as first in first matched. Either they let their bots push in front or the queue is not managed as you would expect.
Conspiracy theorists will say some have special privileges but all that's happening is cross matching.
Yes you might be getting near the front of the queue and expect to be matched any second but what about those with orders on other selections and prices who's arrived before yours?
On football markets its even more murky as you've got XMXM so you might be at the front of the cue in the O/U market but there could still be people ahead of you in the CS market
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jamesedwards
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Dallas wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:17 pm
jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:58 pm
spreadbetting wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:33 pm
Been 10 more since then , 2 yesterday dunno if any from today. Not as rare as people think but being first in the queue means you've more chance of profiting.
Anyone know how Betfair manage their queues? It certainly is not as simple as first in first matched. Either they let their bots push in front or the queue is not managed as you would expect.
Conspiracy theorists will say some have special privileges but all that's happening is cross matching.
Yes you might be getting near the front of the queue and expect to be matched any second but what about those with orders on other selections and prices who's arrived before yours?
On football markets its even more murky as you've got XMXM so you might be at the front of the cue in the O/U market but there could still be people ahead of you in the CS market
Today I laid £510 at 1.01 on a horse just after the market went live. Including my stake after my lay there was £615 in the queue waiting to be matched at 1.01. At the time of bet placement there was no offers to back on any selections at all.

The horse went on to lose despite trading a total of £711 at 1.01 during the race. And yet only £245 of my £510 was matched.
Last edited by jamesedwards on Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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murdok
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was the Favourite Niece ;)
sionascaig
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:38 am

I'm sure when I loaded the UK markets up today there was already 1.7k matched at 1.01 o the fave in the 1st or 2nd race... (a couple of hours before the race started).. Think it went off about 1.3x...
spreadbetting
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jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:07 pm
Dallas wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:17 pm
jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:58 pm


Anyone know how Betfair manage their queues? It certainly is not as simple as first in first matched. Either they let their bots push in front or the queue is not managed as you would expect.
Conspiracy theorists will say some have special privileges but all that's happening is cross matching.
Yes you might be getting near the front of the queue and expect to be matched any second but what about those with orders on other selections and prices who's arrived before yours?
On football markets its even more murky as you've got XMXM so you might be at the front of the cue in the O/U market but there could still be people ahead of you in the CS market
Today I laid £510 at 1.01 on a horse just after the market went live. Including my stake after my lay there was £615 in the queue waiting to be matched at 1.01. The horse went on to lose despite trading a total of £711 at 1.01 during the race. And yet only £245 of my £510 was matched.
XM isn't switched on til nearer the off so could easily have been bets already in the market that made up the 1.01 when it was turned on
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firlandsfarm
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Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

Dallas wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:17 pm
Conspiracy theorists will say some have special privileges but all that's happening is cross matching.
Yes you might be getting near the front of the queue and expect to be matched any second but what about those with orders on other selections and prices who's arrived before yours?
On football markets its even more murky as you've got XMXM so you might be at the front of the cue in the O/U market but there could still be people ahead of you in the CS market
I'm not a supporter of conspiracy theories (unless supported by hard facts) but as someone with financial compliance and audit experience there is an expectation that management implement processes that are not overly complicated and not 'helpful' to fraudulent activity. It seems to me that Xmatching adds a level of complication and could be used to hide/confuse suspicious activity. I'm not suggesting Betfair as a company would act dishonestly but what anti hacking (fraud) checks do they have? I'm reminded of the story of the computer programmers at a bank who took the unrecordable fractions of interest payments (e.g. 1/2 a cent) and transferred them to their 'special account'. They collected millions! The Betfair 'rounding' scam was also a prime example. So many transactions take place now that what are 'invisible' amounts can make you a millionaire!
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Dallas
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Location: Working From Home

jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:07 pm
Dallas wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:17 pm
jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:58 pm


Anyone know how Betfair manage their queues? It certainly is not as simple as first in first matched. Either they let their bots push in front or the queue is not managed as you would expect.
Conspiracy theorists will say some have special privileges but all that's happening is cross matching.
Yes you might be getting near the front of the queue and expect to be matched any second but what about those with orders on other selections and prices who's arrived before yours?
On football markets its even more murky as you've got XMXM so you might be at the front of the cue in the O/U market but there could still be people ahead of you in the CS market
Today I laid £510 at 1.01 on a horse just after the market went live. Including my stake after my lay there was £615 in the queue waiting to be matched at 1.01. At the time of bet placement there was no offers to back on any selections at all.

The horse went on to lose despite trading a total of £711 at 1.01 during the race. And yet only £245 of my £510 was matched.
So there was £105 ahead of you in the queue, so that will account for the first £210 traded
There was then another £501 traded, of which £245 was yours

Therefore only £5.50 of someone else's jumped ahead and was matched before yours
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LeTiss
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Ahhh my old friend XM

IMO, the absolute worst thing BF ever done, even more so than PC

People need to have faith that what they're seeing is the true picture. When punters/traders start believing they are being conned, or the true picture is different to what they are seeing, it creates a lack of confidence in the Exchange

XM impacts upon the integrity of markets. Of course, BF tells us it's all good, you have a better chance of being matched.......we all know the truth, it's simply designed for them to cream the profits off the temporarily broken books
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

LeTiss wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:11 am
Ahhh my old friend XM

IMO, the absolute worst thing BF ever done, even more so than PC

People need to have faith that what they're seeing is the true picture. When punters/traders start believing they are being conned, or the true picture is different to what they are seeing, it creates a lack of confidence in the Exchange

XM impacts upon the integrity of markets. Of course, BF tells us it's all good, you have a better chance of being matched.......we all know the truth, it's simply designed for them to cream the profits off the temporarily broken books
Exactly, they lost a whole army of small bookmakers/punters all pricing up the markets and providing liquidity. Only a few would ever get fully filled so the rest would leave their liquidity up in the hope it was filled. Now we just have artificial prices based on no real liquidity to give the impression the markets are thriving.

And regarding Jame's conspiracies the fact he was actually matched should put paid to that idea especially if he thinks Betfair would only ever fiddle the market to get £105 in the queue first.
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cmuddle
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:12 pm

LeTiss wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:11 am
Ahhh my old friend XM

IMO, the absolute worst thing BF ever done, even more so than PC

People need to have faith that what they're seeing is the true picture. When punters/traders start believing they are being conned, or the true picture is different to what they are seeing, it creates a lack of confidence in the Exchange

XM impacts upon the integrity of markets. Of course, BF tells us it's all good, you have a better chance of being matched.......we all know the truth, it's simply designed for them to cream the profits off the temporarily broken books
XM totally screwed my in running bots and so after some time looking into creating profitable strategies I completely abandoned that idea
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jamesedwards
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Dallas wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:39 am
jameegray1 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:07 pm
Dallas wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:17 pm


Conspiracy theorists will say some have special privileges but all that's happening is cross matching.
Yes you might be getting near the front of the queue and expect to be matched any second but what about those with orders on other selections and prices who's arrived before yours?
On football markets its even more murky as you've got XMXM so you might be at the front of the cue in the O/U market but there could still be people ahead of you in the CS market
Today I laid £510 at 1.01 on a horse just after the market went live. Including my stake after my lay there was £615 in the queue waiting to be matched at 1.01. At the time of bet placement there was no offers to back on any selections at all.

The horse went on to lose despite trading a total of £711 at 1.01 during the race. And yet only £245 of my £510 was matched.
So there was £105 ahead of you in the queue, so that will account for the first £210 traded
There was then another £501 traded, of which £245 was yours

Therefore only £5.50 of someone else's jumped ahead and was matched before yours
Excuse my likely ignorance, but from my understanding for every £100 matched at 1.01 this contributes a total traded value of £101, not £200?
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Betfair just use the backers stakes and layers stakes regardless of the odds. Betdaq use the odds in their calculations for matched volume just to make comparisons that little bit harder.
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jamesedwards
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

spreadbetting wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:02 pm
Betfair just use the backers stakes and layers stakes regardless of the odds. Betdaq use the odds in their calculations for matched volume just to make comparisons that little bit harder.
Thanks, this explains everything. It wasn't cross-matching at all, just my misunderstanding of the way Betfair compiles it's traded volume figures.

Thanks Dallas for bearing with me also.
spreadbetting
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

You did well to get that close to the front of the queue, there's usually a lot of people all competing to be first with a lot larger sums
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