Betfair Premium Charge Calculator

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tees
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:30 am

Hi,
Does anyone know of a Betfair Premium Charge Calculator, where you enter all your lifetime details, current commission, etc, and all your bets for the week to determine your PC for that week? Also can you determine from the PC page on Betfair what % you will be paying (40%, 50% or 60%) when hitting the net £250K limit for paying PC at the higher rate?
Thanks for any responses.
/dave
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Euler
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Commission paid / lifetime earnings will give you a %, that determines what PC you pay.

But you need to be over £250k in earnings to hit the higher levels.
tees
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:30 am

Thanks for responding.

So my Commission paid (not including Other charges and Premium charges) / Gross profit & loss = 0.055

How does that determine what higher % PC I will be paying?
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

I've always found it a real pain trying to calculate exact PC charges because I also bot the AUS markets which have variable MBR's. If you just do UK stuff with the set 5% MBR it shouldn't be too hard just to calculate any likely charges from your BettingPnL data files.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

tees wrote:Thanks for responding.

So my Commission paid (not including Other charges and Premium charges) / Gross profit & loss = 0.055

How does that determine what higher % PC I will be paying?
The PC charges are explained here

http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Betfair. ... /#charges6

Higher PC charges after winning £250K are based on the following.
Lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio Applicable Premium Charge Rate
< 5% 60%
5% - 10% 50%
10%+ 40%
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Euler
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

spreadbetting wrote:I've always found it a real pain trying to calculate exact PC charges because I also bot the AUS markets which have variable MBR's. If you just do UK stuff with the set 5% MBR it shouldn't be too hard just to calculate any likely charges from your BettingPnL data files.
That shouldn't matter as all commission paid is displayed in your account area on Betfair so you just base it off that figure.
tees
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:30 am

Ah... thanks so much, I guess I should have looked at the Betfair page first.

So it looks like I just squeeze into the 50% bracket.

The reason for asking about a calculator is to play around with it to try and see if generated commission helps offset any PC charges.

I guess I'll have to try and get my Excel head on and devise a calculator.
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Euler
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

If you churn to generate commission on your account if you can get your average commission to below 3% then the implied commision calculator Betfair use will start to work in your favour and you will reduce your PC bracket. Nobody should be paying more than 40% intentionally.
tees
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:30 am

Yes, it's the amount of churning I would have to do to get into 40% - hence the question about a calculator.

How do most people go about churning? Is it bet on 100 evens shots through the week and hopefully the win/lose ratio is 50%. Or I guess you could bet for/against yourself on related markets?
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Euler
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Dutching is a good way to churn, I accidentally discovered a profit strategy doing this.

Of you can take counter positions on footy for example, backing 0-0 and doing the opposite in a related market.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Euler wrote:
That shouldn't matter as all commission paid is displayed in your account area on Betfair so you just base it off that figure.
Are you talking about the premium-chargespage? Or are there other pages with ongoing totals? The PC page one just does the last week figures using the implid/pid comms figure.

I do calcs during the week to see if I need to step on on any comm generating activity and it just calcs by using the pnl figures, comes out exact for the UK stuff etc but AUS stuff is charged at 6.5 & 7 etc so doesn't tally up. Never out by a massive amount just annoying they don't provide the info needed to do proper calcs.
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Euler
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

OK, if you do them during the week there isn't much on BF to help you.

When they introduced PC I was already way over the lifetime limit so it's just a retrospective numbers game for me.
tees
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:30 am

I don't follow form on horse-racing but I tried dutching the field at most of this afternoons races to get a feel for it. £25 stakes per race at 2, 3 or 4 ticks above current back odds for all runners about 10 mins before the off. Some races I filled completely for a quid or two profit. Most races got filled about 60-70%. Didn't let any bets go in-running. Ended up with a £15 profit - woohoo!! Ok, not very scientific and you miss the steamers and drifters but it's surprising what you learn from watching these markets. I wanted to checked points statement afterwards. 0 or single figure points for each race - so not much adding to commission and implied comms.

Without giving your system away what stakes do you use for dutching?
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

tees wrote: I wanted to checked points statement afterwards. 0 or single figure points for each race - so not much adding to commission and implied comms.

Even though you might not rack up commission points any commission paid is taken into account for PC charge calculations, the comm points are just for your discount rate. Like Peter says the more comm churning you do the lower you can get your comm rate and the easier it becomes once your implied comms for losses are higher than your wins.

The main one to avoid is going in higher than the 40% rate if you're close to paying as it's not that hard to get yourself >10% by arbing/churning, a lot easier than trying to churn 60% comms each week that's for sure.
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

I've notice since British Summer Time commenced there has been a slight discrepancy between my PC and my own accounts.

I've always treated the start of the PC week as midnight Sunday/Monday GMT (23:00)...

Bugger!!! Just realised as I'm writing this it should be 01:00, that would explain the discrepancy. :oops:
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