Smarkets public API

A place to discuss anything.
Post Reply
vide0star
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: London

Derek27 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:07 pm
vide0star wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm
The erroneous trade policy is Standard Operating Procedure for any financial exchange.
This isn't a financial exchange, it's a sports betting exchange and it certainly doesn't happen on Betfair.
vide0star wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm
This policy kicks in in very very very rare circumstances.
If I can lose £5,000 because I didn't know that an opening or exit trade is going to be voided, even if it is in very very very rare circumstances, I simply wouldn't have anything to do with that exchange.
Why isn't it a financial exchange? It trades event future contracts. Also what difference does it make sports vs finance?

Why would you "lose" £5k? This happens so rarely. It's constructed to protect customers, not injure them.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

vide0star wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:38 pm
Why would you "lose" £5k? This happens so rarely. It's constructed to protect customers, not injure them.
I'm sorry, I thought you would have a basic understanding of how trading works!!

Nobody wants to lose £5K AT ALL, the fact that it rarely happens is no consolation!!!

A simple example: Place a £400 back bet on a horse at 13.0. Lay the horse at 9.0 for £577.78 for a £177.78 profit.

Now, if on one of the very very rare occasions the £400 back bet was voided I could potentially lose my liability on the lay bet of £4,622.24.

Trading is all about spotting bargains - it's possible to lay a horse at half the price you backed it at for a 100% profit. 15% is a very small margin to be applying this policy.

It could be argued that any bet that loses was a mistake/error - that's the whole point of betting, taking advantage of other peoples errors.
Last edited by Derek27 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trading96
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:47 pm

You may trust your current government but what about the next one? You don't want the government having too much power even if you trust them, because of the precedent it sets.

Similar thing with exchanges.

Smarkets may have your best interests at heart, but what about Smarkets in 5 years time, or the next exchange to come along? That is fundamentally the problem, even if you trust Smarkets to use it reasonably.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

What about these lay bets at the bottom - do they all get voided?
LoadRunnerInfoChartAction.do.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

I'd imagine it depends on the outcome of the race and who backers/layers were :)
LinusP
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:31 pm
What about these lay bets at the bottom - do they all get voided?
LoadRunnerInfoChartAction.do.jpg
I assumed that the 15% will be calculated using implied chance so in this case nothing, but who knows.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

I'd guess you assumed wrong, LinusP, this is apparently in line with Standard Operating Procedure for any financial exchange where implied chance does not occur.

The notion of "fair market price" on a betting exchange is ridiculous, and to set it at +-15% completely goes against the basis of exchange betting where you put up a price and if someone fancies it they take it. There's no fancy API for punters to fire bets all over the place so it'd be easy to code some javascript to the site to warn bettors if the odds were +-15% of the current price or even simply reject them at the backend. But then again I doubt the policy is there to protect punters. The more bookmaker protections that gets added into the site such as palpable rules, ringfenced access etc, the more it becomes obvious the site is simply a private bookmakers with the ability to lay bets.

At the end of the day if you're active on your own exchange you're always going to be at risk of being caught short especially if you're relying on 'outside' sources to feed your prices.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Imagine you laid this one at 3.0 and the price went up quickly - it would be quite worrying not knowing for certain if you bets will count.
LoadRunnerInfoChartAction.do.jpg
LoadRunnerInfoChartAction.do2.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
LinusP
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Christ, it gets worse
In addition to recent execution prices and prices available on other platforms at the time the bet was matched, Smarkets may also consider a number of additional factors when deciding whether a bet is clearly erroneous.

These include, but are not limited to, system malfunction, the volatility of the contract, new information becoming available in the public domain that may significantly alter the price (such as team news for a football match), whether the result of the bet had been unconditionally decided before a complaint was raised, whether betting on the market was recently halted and resumed, the start price of the selection and if the complainant had taken any steps to limit their exposure to the erroneous bet.
https://help.smarkets.com/hc/en-gb/arti ... ets-Policy
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

I suspect Vide0star has experience of financial markets but no experience of betting or trading horse racing and doesn't understand the game we're playing.

The bottom line is that trading can involve putting £2000 on the table for a guaranteed £10. Nobody would do it if you're actually putting £2000 at risk to make £10, which is what you would be doing with each trade on Smarkets. It only has to go wrong once to wipe out more than a months profits and the uncertainty makes Smarkets not viable.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

LinusP wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:50 pm
Christ, it gets worse
In addition to recent execution prices and prices available on other platforms at the time the bet was matched, Smarkets may also consider a number of additional factors when deciding whether a bet is clearly erroneous.

These include, but are not limited to, system malfunction, the volatility of the contract, new information becoming available in the public domain that may significantly alter the price (such as team news for a football match), whether the result of the bet had been unconditionally decided before a complaint was raised, whether betting on the market was recently halted and resumed, the start price of the selection and if the complainant had taken any steps to limit their exposure to the erroneous bet.
https://help.smarkets.com/hc/en-gb/arti ... ets-Policy

I know, even bookmakers take team news changes on the chin :D
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

The simple thing to do is void all bets on every market on the basis that the result of the event is "new information becoming available in the public domain that may significantly alter the price". :lol:
User avatar
jimibt
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

Derek27 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:02 pm
The simple thing to do is void all bets on every market on the basis that the result of the event is "new information becoming available in the public domain that may significantly alter the price". :lol:
the simple thing to do is ... AVOID!! (open kimono or *NOT* !!) :D
vide0star
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: London

Derek27 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:31 pm
What about these lay bets at the bottom - do they all get voided?
LoadRunnerInfoChartAction.do.jpg
There's a price delta of 0.9% in this example which is less than 15%. Our underlying price format is percentages.
vide0star
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: London

Derek27 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:09 am
vide0star wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:38 pm
Why would you "lose" £5k? This happens so rarely. It's constructed to protect customers, not injure them.
I'm sorry, I thought you would have a basic understanding of how trading works!!

Nobody wants to lose £5K AT ALL, the fact that it rarely happens is no consolation!!!

A simple example: Place a £400 back bet on a horse at 13.0. Lay the horse at 9.0 for £577.78 for a £177.78 profit.

Now, if on one of the very very rare occasions the £400 back bet was voided I could potentially lose my liability on the lay bet of £4,622.24.

Trading is all about spotting bargains - it's possible to lay a horse at half the price you backed it at for a 100% profit. 15% is a very small margin to be applying this policy.

It could be argued that any bet that loses was a mistake/error - that's the whole point of betting, taking advantage of other peoples errors.
There's under a <15% difference between 13 and 9 (100/13 - 100/9) = -3.4%
Post Reply

Return to “General discussion”