General discussion : Smarkets public API

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weemac
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:28 am

"If the erroneous bet was matched at a price of +-15% of the fair market price at the time, Smarkets reserves the right to void the bet."

A betting exchange is not a bookmaker; the very idea of erroneous pricing is erroneous.

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LeTiss
Posts: 4177
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:44 am

weemac wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:28 am
"If the erroneous bet was matched at a price of +-15% of the fair market price at the time, Smarkets reserves the right to void the bet."

A betting exchange is not a bookmaker; the very idea of erroneous pricing is erroneous.
I like the fact he was honest about this, but this policy is the reason I won't be joining them

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Naffman
Posts: 2410
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:02 am

How many races has this ever been affected? I don't agree with it but if it is just once then that isn't too bad.

Do these big liquidity players use bots to determine what price they should offer relative to BF or do they do it independently?

Btw it feels like dragons den on here :lol:

spreadbetting
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:02 am

vide0star wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:54 pm
spreadbetting wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:02 pm

" If the erroneous bet was matched at a price of +-15% of the fair market price at the time, Smarkets reserves the right to void the bet."


How many punters have requested bets voided, and how many bets voided for market makers? 15% is a very small window on fluid betting markets.
I don't have that information in front of me but anecdotally I'd say it happens a handful of times per month.

A handful of times for who though? Requests from the market makers I presume?

spreadbetting
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:33 am

LeTiss wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:44 am
weemac wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:28 am
"If the erroneous bet was matched at a price of +-15% of the fair market price at the time, Smarkets reserves the right to void the bet."

A betting exchange is not a bookmaker; the very idea of erroneous pricing is erroneous.
I like the fact he was honest about this, but this policy is the reason I won't be joining them
They're an "open kimono betting company" so you'd expect that honestly, LeTiss :)

They're obviously in a catch 22 situation having to appease their market makers with restrictions to the API and palpable bet policies in place in order to guarantee liquidity to the exchange. If they hadn't sold their soul for early liquidity it's unlikely they'd have lasted so for them it was a wise move even though it probably caps your likely growth. I guess the big payday is just around the corner if they play their cards right though.



https://youtu.be/3p-9o9EQ4OQ

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northbound
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:22 pm

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:27 pm

spreadbetting wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:33 am
They're obviously in a catch 22 situation having to appease their market makers with restrictions to the API
+1

Which is why I have doubts about them posing a serious threat to Betfair.

Trading96
Posts: 347
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:47 pm

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Yeah that would be interesting to know if they void the other way (in practice), ie a customer making a mistake and the market maker benefiting.

Also if the market maker complains then the event happens and the customer loses do they void it or keep quiet.

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Dallas
Posts: 8151
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:25 pm

Reading between the lines I'm beginning to see it as;

If someone takes a market makers price which they deem to be 15% outside a fair market price (ie, the market maker didn't remove their money quick enough following news or they simply offered the wrong odds in the first place) then the result goes against them up to 60 mins afterwards the bets can be voided if they notify Smarkets

For a punter, this means they don't know if they have gotten a value price and will get their winnings or if its a step to much value taken from a MM and wont know if it will be voided till around 2hrs after the result
For a trader its an even bigger nightmare, you could close a position to find your opening side later voided or a closed position voided leaving a sizeable open position standing - in short, you also don't know where you're at for certain till around 2 hours after the result

So you can use Smarkets but any price you take not in line with whats available on bf at the time has a good chance of being voided if it belonged to a MM and it was far enough off the BF price or it changed suddenly and the MM was too slow?

Hope I'm wrong otherwise, it defeats the purpose of being an exchange - so some further clarification would help

vide0star
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: London
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Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm

You guys are really confusing me. This isn't anywhere close to a catch 22 situation.

The erroneous trade policy is Standard Operating Procedure for any financial exchange. When I traded on NASDAQ trades got busted with some regularity. It governs how mistakes are handled, whether by a market maker or customer. From the point of view of the exchange, it doesn't matter who the counterparties are.

This policy kicks in in very very very rare circumstances. It's not a policy that anywhere near lets a market maker cherry pick and bust trades it doesn't like.

I'm happy to host a conference call if 1+ of you are interested. You can bring your best dragons den questions and I can practice for my internal townhall meetings when I get grilled by my staff :-)

Derek27
Posts: 2249
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:07 pm

vide0star wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm
The erroneous trade policy is Standard Operating Procedure for any financial exchange.
This isn't a financial exchange, it's a sports betting exchange and it certainly doesn't happen on Betfair.
vide0star wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:54 pm
This policy kicks in in very very very rare circumstances.
If I can lose £5,000 because I didn't know that an opening or exit trade is going to be voided, even if it is in very very very rare circumstances, I simply wouldn't have anything to do with that exchange.

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