https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/a ... SApp_Other
This is a really interesting article. There's nothing new under the sun....
Wolves of Instagram: selling the sizzle not the sausage!
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spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
Maybe they should do one on the Wolves of Betfair, there must be quite a pack out there by now.
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Kafkaesque
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:20 am
Read this the other day. Pretty good piece, as Guardian's long reads tend to be.
In fact, it got me thinking as well as moving. Hope you'll forgive the hijacking
I do some work as a substitute teacher, as I find it inspiring and a good break-off, and I sent this piece to my contact at the school, suggesting that I do a talk in various classes on gambling and more specifically the lure of scammers in various forms, and he agreed to it. I have a more unique perspective than some random teacher with no actual knowledge on the subject matter saying, don't do it.
The problems adressed in the linked article hasn't really reached us here in Denmark (is my impression anyway), but it's lurking just below the surface. Kids as young as 9-10 are gambling, and it goes without saying when they're that young losing at it, because it's become an integrated part of some computer games.
On a large scale I think, it should concern us all. The industry, correctly, has a bad enough rep as it is. If a gambling bug starts spreading among kids under 18, more than it already is, apart from being bad as a society, would also mean that a public backlash is surely coming at some point. And tough legislation might just follow, to the detriment of all of us, who's trying to work this thing seriously.
On the smaller scale, I just want to try to help and give some sound advice to some kids, I’ve come to know and care for. My aim isn’t to paint gambling as the devil incarnated, as this would be counterproductive imo. Rather my approach would be that I get the lure of gambling, but explain that it is never in any way, shape or form a get-rich-quick solution. That those actually succesfull at it are so because they work very hard at it, and that it requires a lot of the math skills which most of the very same kids, I know for a fact are gambling, dismiss as something ”they’ll never need in real life”.
Apart from the example in the article, I intend to steal Peter’s description of how a tipster scammer might operate, which I remember seeing in video a long time ago (write to a lot of people, suggesting an evens shot as back to half and lay to other half, drop the half with a losing pick received, and then repeat with the half with a winning pick again and again, until people are lured in). I hope, @Euler will allow this theft, given the intention.
Any other suggestions for scam types, I could use as cautionary tales, would be much appreciated. As would any other input of course
In fact, it got me thinking as well as moving. Hope you'll forgive the hijacking
I do some work as a substitute teacher, as I find it inspiring and a good break-off, and I sent this piece to my contact at the school, suggesting that I do a talk in various classes on gambling and more specifically the lure of scammers in various forms, and he agreed to it. I have a more unique perspective than some random teacher with no actual knowledge on the subject matter saying, don't do it.The problems adressed in the linked article hasn't really reached us here in Denmark (is my impression anyway), but it's lurking just below the surface. Kids as young as 9-10 are gambling, and it goes without saying when they're that young losing at it, because it's become an integrated part of some computer games.
On a large scale I think, it should concern us all. The industry, correctly, has a bad enough rep as it is. If a gambling bug starts spreading among kids under 18, more than it already is, apart from being bad as a society, would also mean that a public backlash is surely coming at some point. And tough legislation might just follow, to the detriment of all of us, who's trying to work this thing seriously.
On the smaller scale, I just want to try to help and give some sound advice to some kids, I’ve come to know and care for. My aim isn’t to paint gambling as the devil incarnated, as this would be counterproductive imo. Rather my approach would be that I get the lure of gambling, but explain that it is never in any way, shape or form a get-rich-quick solution. That those actually succesfull at it are so because they work very hard at it, and that it requires a lot of the math skills which most of the very same kids, I know for a fact are gambling, dismiss as something ”they’ll never need in real life”.
Apart from the example in the article, I intend to steal Peter’s description of how a tipster scammer might operate, which I remember seeing in video a long time ago (write to a lot of people, suggesting an evens shot as back to half and lay to other half, drop the half with a losing pick received, and then repeat with the half with a winning pick again and again, until people are lured in). I hope, @Euler will allow this theft, given the intention.
Any other suggestions for scam types, I could use as cautionary tales, would be much appreciated. As would any other input of course
Agree with that point. In the UK, I think the constant and very pervasive reach of gambling advertising - which deliberately encourages the worst kind of speculative punting - is bound to provoke a backlash.Kafkaesque wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:12 am
On a large scale I think, it should concern us all. The industry, correctly, has a bad enough rep as it is. If a gambling bug starts spreading among kids under 18, more than it already is, apart from being bad as a society, would also mean that a public backlash is surely coming at some point. And tough legislation might just follow, to the detriment of all of us, who's trying to work this thing seriously.
There is some regulatory response here already. That seems largely focused on FOBTs so far - and also the dodgy practices of bookmakers about requiring proof of identity etc when you win and not when you lose...
What mitigates against a wholesale backlash against really sharky gambling stuff like in the article UK is: who is the harm happening to? Is it powerful people, with political clout? Or is it poor, disenfranchised, young people? If the latter (and it is mostly, although obviously not entirely), then any substantive reaction will be a long time in coming.
What mitigates against a wholesale backlash against really sharky gambling stuff like in the article UK is: who is the harm happening to? Is it powerful people, with political clout? Or is it poor, disenfranchised, young people? If the latter (and it is mostly, although obviously not entirely), then any substantive reaction will be a long time in coming.
The Betfair trading space is full of this sort of stuff, I think it would be shocking for some to realise they have handed money over to people who have never traded themselves or not on any scale. The stuff in that article and a lot of what I see out there is just plain fraud. You can't build, a product or an industry around such behaviour.
People think they can trust them though because Betfair sponser the product/courses they're selling (you all know who I mean) 
Maybe they just want more mugs in the market and don't really care if the seller is actually any good at what he does
Maybe they just want more mugs in the market and don't really care if the seller is actually any good at what he does
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dragontrades
- Posts: 1248
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:22 pm
What's your opinion of the CranBerry?
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
I like him. He's zero bullshit, humble and therefore doesn't mind saying what's a struggle. Ducks and dives a bit selling advice but who doesn't if they're doing trading vids on YouTube.
I think it comes down to what you want to learn.
If you just want spreadsheet facts and trading methods then frankly anyone can tell you those, even your butcher. If you want to be taught how to turn that into success you need to find someone who's been on that journey and is a good teacher.
Lots of successful people can't teach because they've forgotten what it's like to be a struggling student or never were one, or don't know how to get the best out of different types of people. Teaching is a million miles from trading so finding someone who excells at both is rare.
There's many that can teach a few, but very few that can teach the many. I'd be inclined to ask, how many people have you taught, and how many are as successful as they hoped to be? Ie What's the odds of them delivering.
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ruthlessimon
- Posts: 2094
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It's an interesting dilemma actually:ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:21 pmI like him. He's zero bullshit, humble and therefore doesn't mind saying what's a struggle. Ducks and dives a bit selling advice but who doesn't if they're doing trading vids on YouTube.
1. A no-bullshit educator; that can't trade
2. A bullshit educator, that can trade
3. A no-bullshit educator, that can trade
4. A bullshit eductor, that can't trade.
In ranking whats worse, I'd probably have it:
4 - Entertainment
2&1 - bad as each other
3 - Creme de la creme
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
I'm 100% not saying that I couldn't learn a lot from someone truly gifted, it's just that for where I am now that extreme level of ability wouldn't automatically trump other considerations.
Yet again it's horses for (training) courses.
Yet again it's horses for (training) courses.
I'll go for 4.ruthlessimon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:07 pmIt's an interesting dilemma actually:ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:21 pmI like him. He's zero bullshit, humble and therefore doesn't mind saying what's a struggle. Ducks and dives a bit selling advice but who doesn't if they're doing trading vids on YouTube.
1. A no-bullshit educator; that can't trade
2. A bullshit educator, that can trade
3. A no-bullshit educator, that can trade
4. A bullshit eductor, that can't trade.
In ranking whats worse, I'd probably have it:
4 - Entertainment
2&1 - bad as each other
3 - Creme de la creme
The badger is probably worse than #4
He laps up the attention he gets when people call him out as he claims to sell more ebooks as a result
He has lived in Blackpool and Skipton - hardly places that scream I make tons of money trading!
It's easy money flogging BF products to noobs, Steve Howe has got in on it (apparently has a good course?), caan, that weird guy who talks about how automation is the way to go but then quit because his bot wasn't doing any good anymore, the list goes on
He laps up the attention he gets when people call him out as he claims to sell more ebooks as a result
He has lived in Blackpool and Skipton - hardly places that scream I make tons of money trading!
It's easy money flogging BF products to noobs, Steve Howe has got in on it (apparently has a good course?), caan, that weird guy who talks about how automation is the way to go but then quit because his bot wasn't doing any good anymore, the list goes on