Quick Poll : Targets

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Should your profit target be set ...

Daily
7
9%
Weekly
9
12%
Monthly
13
17%
Biannually
1
1%
Annually
4
5%
No target
35
47%
Undecided
4
5%
This thread informed my choice or changed my mind
2
3%
 
Total votes: 75
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Euler
Posts: 24701
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Say you need to make £100 a day and you are on £10 with two races left?

Setting a target can force your hand psychologically. If the markets are rubbish, there is no way you can magically make them better. So trying to 'catch up' is a nightmare scenario and can put a lot of pressure on just at the moment you don't need it.

Conversely, if you having a great day and are really in zone, then stopping when you have hit your target is a perverse idea.

Longer term, to take pressure off your trading. Set a target over the longest time period possible. Say you need to make £1000. £1000 a day is unrealistic apart from an elite trader. £1000 a month on 1000 races is much more realistic at £1 a race. So the timescale can have a massive impact on your mentality and target.
xitian
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:08 pm

I sort of have an annual target. But I don't consider it a target as such, but use it more as a measure of performance.

If I manage to profit more than I did last year then I know I'm still growing and progressing, and my personal challenge is to find ways to grow year on year if I can. If I don't manage to beat last year (or know that my chances are getting slimmer as the year progresses) then it serves as a point to re-access why I'm losing my edge, and that helps to inspire new ideas and innovation as well. For some reason each year I think I'll never be able to beat the previous year, but so far I've always found a way to scale up.
trader44
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm

if you are in the daily grind and are having to pay your bills from your winnings its hard not to have a daily target but i defo think weekly/monthly
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Euler
Posts: 24701
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Also, have a think about seasonality. In the summer racing markets, you are bound to find a good opportunity across the six or so cards on during the entire day.

In the winter, you may only have two low-quality meetings on and struggle to find any opportunity. Your target has to be different to reflect the underlying opportunity.
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

When it comes to quarterly profits I'm happy if I beat last years corresponding quarter but my first quarter is always well below the other three - I suspect most horse racing traders will experience that.
Kalumpus
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:04 pm

I've a daily mark, in relation to how many markets there are. Above that mark I feel I've done well & below not so well. After 100,000+ markets doing the same thing there are not many surprises.
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Kafkaesque
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:20 am

Euler wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:55 pm
Say you need to make £100 a day and you are on £10 with two races left?

Setting a target can force your hand psychologically. If the markets are rubbish, there is no way you can magically make them better. So trying to 'catch up' is a nightmare scenario and can put a lot of pressure on just at the moment you don't need it.

Conversely, if you having a great day and are really in zone, then stopping when you have hit your target is a perverse idea.

Longer term, to take pressure off your trading. Set a target over the longest time period possible. Say you need to make £1000. £1000 a day is unrealistic apart from an elite trader. £1000 a month on 1000 races is much more realistic at £1 a race. So the timescale can have a massive impact on your mentality and target.
Great subject to bring up, and some good shouts already. Some of the comments so far are at odds what how I would think of and define target, with the above being the best example, even if it's otherwise sound advice.

Thus, just to make sure we aren't talking about different things, without confused souls such as myself realizing it, can we quickly define it. Is it.....

a) A set amount which you will "chase" to reach, especially towards the end of days, and perhaps even stop once reached to avoid dipping below.
b) A set amount which you deem to be realistically achieveable, if you keep your workload and disciplin up, but can be adjusted if they turn out to be unrealistic for whatever reason (not counting lack of work ethic and disciplin).

I use targets a lot and always have, but only, only, only in terms of "b)" and never "a)". Maybe it's just the language barrier and/or trading lingo that's got me in a tangle here, and you guys would define b) as something other than target?
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

... or c) a measurement of success but nothing you will chase or allow to affect your trading.
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Kafkaesque
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:20 am

Derek27 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 10:51 pm
... or c) a measurement of success but nothing you will chase or allow to affect your trading.
That's something different entirely though isn't it, as what you're suggesting as post-trade, rather than pre-trade. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by measurement?
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

By measurement of success I mean if you achieve your predefined target you have succeeded and if you don't you've failed.
Nero Tulip
Posts: 686
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Kafkaesque wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 10:19 pm


b) A set amount which you deem to be realistically achieveable, if you keep your workload and disciplin up, but can be adjusted if they turn out to be unrealistic for whatever reason (not counting lack of work ethic and disciplin).

I use targets a lot and always have, but only, only, only in terms of "b)" and never "a)". Maybe it's just the language barrier and/or trading lingo that's got me in a tangle here, and you guys would define b) as something other than target?

b) is more akin to what I mentioned as a more sensible way of having a target, if you feel it serves to motivate you in a positive way towards making right decisions, I think it's all good. Peter's post you quoted said exactly what I was trying to get at, when the target begins to outrank the decision making process, that's trouble. I don't think b) is that..

I can sometimes do similar, say I *hope to make x amount for the year, but will let my strategy play out and deliver whatever it delivers... the real trouble normally begins when I'm on a good run, and I extrapolate what my current profit rate might equate to at end of year, it never fails to initiate a harsh downturn...It's human nature in many ways, it's a hard game, and I think probably, it's our old friend dopamine that loves setting up targets of all different kinds. Which is why I try to reinforce healthy targets related to doing things technically correct, or working on being focused etc.
FrogThimble
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:26 pm

I've started to set myself a daily target now. The purpose isn't to say that I should gain that amount each day but more to say that *if* I do happen to win that amount on any day then I can stop trading for that day at that point and go and do something else. On days when the target is reached it's quite satisfying to just turn off the computer and go for a nice long walk or something instead of hanging about trying to trade into the evening... and has the added benefit of extra time to mentally prepare for the next day. Sometimes it's better to walk away early even without the target being reached too.

It might sound crazy but I'd rather gain x amount in half a day's trading than gain x plus a bit more in a full day's trading (or risk losing some of x because of being far too long at the screen and losing concentration).
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Dallas
Posts: 22674
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

What about when the days go so well you hit your target in an hour and by sticking it out while the market conditions suit you would have hit the target 5 times over?

I can understand ppl stopping when they are having a slow or bad day but to stop when things are going well is counterproductive in the long run
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brimson25
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:42 am

Isn't some of the motivation for setting targets to "force" you to trade when you feel like watching the football and having a beer?

It's really quite hard to impose a structure on yourself for some people. Maybe an hour target or number of races target is more beneficial
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

A trading duration target would be far more appropriate than profit - you could find yourself having a very long day making up losses when you could just as easily to it the next days, perhaps when the markets are better.

I actually need to discipline myself to take time off trading and do other things!

Looking at the poll again, if there's a biannual selection there should also be a quarterly and half-annual choice. I love comparing my quarterly profits with that of a large failing company. :lol:
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