Quick Poll : Targets

A place to discuss anything.

Should your profit target be set ...

Daily
7
9%
Weekly
9
12%
Monthly
13
17%
Biannually
1
1%
Annually
4
5%
No target
35
47%
Undecided
4
5%
This thread informed my choice or changed my mind
2
3%
 
Total votes: 75
Nero Tulip
Posts: 686
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:29 pm

Kafkaesque wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 10:19 pm


b) A set amount which you deem to be realistically achieveable, if you keep your workload and disciplin up, but can be adjusted if they turn out to be unrealistic for whatever reason (not counting lack of work ethic and disciplin).

I use targets a lot and always have, but only, only, only in terms of "b)" and never "a)". Maybe it's just the language barrier and/or trading lingo that's got me in a tangle here, and you guys would define b) as something other than target?

b) is more akin to what I mentioned as a more sensible way of having a target, if you feel it serves to motivate you in a positive way towards making right decisions, I think it's all good. Peter's post you quoted said exactly what I was trying to get at, when the target begins to outrank the decision making process, that's trouble. I don't think b) is that..

I can sometimes do similar, say I *hope to make x amount for the year, but will let my strategy play out and deliver whatever it delivers... the real trouble normally begins when I'm on a good run, and I extrapolate what my current profit rate might equate to at end of year, it never fails to initiate a harsh downturn...It's human nature in many ways, it's a hard game, and I think probably, it's our old friend dopamine that loves setting up targets of all different kinds. Which is why I try to reinforce healthy targets related to doing things technically correct, or working on being focused etc.
FrogThimble
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:26 pm

I've started to set myself a daily target now. The purpose isn't to say that I should gain that amount each day but more to say that *if* I do happen to win that amount on any day then I can stop trading for that day at that point and go and do something else. On days when the target is reached it's quite satisfying to just turn off the computer and go for a nice long walk or something instead of hanging about trying to trade into the evening... and has the added benefit of extra time to mentally prepare for the next day. Sometimes it's better to walk away early even without the target being reached too.

It might sound crazy but I'd rather gain x amount in half a day's trading than gain x plus a bit more in a full day's trading (or risk losing some of x because of being far too long at the screen and losing concentration).
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Dallas
Posts: 22674
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

What about when the days go so well you hit your target in an hour and by sticking it out while the market conditions suit you would have hit the target 5 times over?

I can understand ppl stopping when they are having a slow or bad day but to stop when things are going well is counterproductive in the long run
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brimson25
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:42 am

Isn't some of the motivation for setting targets to "force" you to trade when you feel like watching the football and having a beer?

It's really quite hard to impose a structure on yourself for some people. Maybe an hour target or number of races target is more beneficial
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

A trading duration target would be far more appropriate than profit - you could find yourself having a very long day making up losses when you could just as easily to it the next days, perhaps when the markets are better.

I actually need to discipline myself to take time off trading and do other things!

Looking at the poll again, if there's a biannual selection there should also be a quarterly and half-annual choice. I love comparing my quarterly profits with that of a large failing company. :lol:
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

brimson25 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:45 am
Isn't some of the motivation for setting targets to "force" you to trade when you feel like watching the football and having a beer?
I find the morgage bill to be motivation enough.
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LeTiss
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Interesting that the biggest response is 'NO Target'

I struggle with that concept as a full-timer, because I am naturally lazy. If there was a world championship for procrastination, I'd be worth backing at fairly short odds. Therefore, I need targets to keep me focused, otherwise I'd happily do nothing each day
stueytrader
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

I don't have any specific numerical target, but I do use a more general target of 'progress' in mind - i.e. I do like to see progress financially, whether thats a day or week or months. But it is not a specific amount, rather simply that I can see profits and judge my activity to be positive overall.

I would like to add an interesting related point - a couple have mentioned that it is silly to stop during a specific day if reaching a 'target' for profit. Funnily, I partly disagree - not meaning a specific amount, but I do think there's something useful for having a good night's sleep each day, and if you know you've done well for that day can be worth considering whether it's worth simply 'banking' for that day, and giving yourself the night off.
FrogThimble
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:26 pm

Dallas wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:49 am
What about when the days go so well you hit your target in an hour and by sticking it out while the market conditions suit you would have hit the target 5 times over?

I can understand ppl stopping when they are having a slow or bad day but to stop when things are going well is counterproductive in the long run
My system will never hit my target 5 times over in a day even if I trade every race. :lol: I'm really just talking about the difference between trading just the afternoon races versus trading the afternoon and then evening races too. Quit after 3 hours or push on for 6 or 7?

I'm not using a target to measure what I want to win so much as to measure how much time I want to spend at the computer.

That said... I stayed on all through today as I had a bad afternoon and wanted to claw a bit back from the evening.
FrogThimble
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:26 pm

stueytrader wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:19 pm


I would like to add an interesting related point - a couple have mentioned that it is silly to stop during a specific day if reaching a 'target' for profit. Funnily, I partly disagree - not meaning a specific amount, but I do think there's something useful for having a good night's sleep each day, and if you know you've done well for that day can be worth considering whether it's worth simply 'banking' for that day, and giving yourself the night off.
Yes, that's a big part of my point. If you've done OK then go and enjoy other aspects of life.

On Tuesday I hit my target by 4pm. Yesterday I hit it just after 5pm. Today I didn't hit it at all and, indeed, I went backwards. Some might say could have made up for today's losses by trading for longer yesterday and the day before but there's no guarantee... I might've ended up making mistakes on one or both of those days if I'd kept going? It's interesting... so many "what ifs".
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mcgoo
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:30 pm

Being profitable would be nice :oops: :shock: :D
stueytrader
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

mcgoo wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:55 am
Being profitable would be nice :oops: :shock: :D
Hah - yeh, I always try to keep in mind my general target 'avoid fecking it all up completely' :lol:
FrogThimble
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:26 pm

I had an interesting afternoon regarding targets.

Due to a freakishly good trade on the Perth 2:00pm I found I had hit 126% of my target for today after just one race. So if I'd stuck strictly to my rules I would have quit for the day at that point. I didn't though... I carried on to trade a further 7 races (5 more wins, 1 loss and one break-even) by the end of which I'd hit 139% of my daily target and quit after the Stratford 3:15pm.

Taking the 8 races as a whole I averaged 17% of my daily target per race.
Excluding the 1st freak result, and just looking at the last 7 races, I averaged 1.8% of my daily target per race.

So my question is this: Given that with that one freak result I won 70 times as much I would on a normally trading race and over 7 times as much as I did on my daily average for today was it really a worthwhile use of my time to carry on after the first race?
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

FrogThimble wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:40 pm
I had an interesting afternoon regarding targets.

Due to a freakishly good trade on the Perth 2:00pm I found I had hit 126% of my target for today after just one race. So if I'd stuck strictly to my rules I would have quit for the day at that point. I didn't though... I carried on to trade a further 7 races (5 more wins, 1 loss and one break-even) by the end of which I'd hit 139% of my daily target and quit after the Stratford 3:15pm.

Taking the 8 races as a whole I averaged 17% of my daily target per race.
Excluding the 1st freak result, and just looking at the last 7 races, I averaged 1.8% of my daily target per race.

So my question is this: Given that with that one freak result I won 70 times as much I would on a normally trading race and over 7 times as much as I did on my daily average for today was it really a worthwhile use of my time to carry on after the first race?

What do you do when you fail to hit a target, add it to the next day? Seems that big win affected you so much you underacheived for the rest of the day, maybe if you'd persevered you'd have got the averages back to 100% for the remaining races. Do you also have daily targets for each weekday? I couldn't imagine winning as much on a Sunday as I do on Saturdays.
FrogThimble
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:26 pm

spreadbetting wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:55 pm



What do you do when you fail to hit a target, add it to the next day? Seems that big win affected you so much you underacheived for the rest of the day, maybe if you'd persevered you'd have got the averages back to 100% for the remaining races. Do you also have daily targets for each weekday? I couldn't imagine winning as much on a Sunday as I do on Saturdays.
No, I don't transfer targets to the next day. My target is the same each day regardless of what happens the previous day and regardless of how many races are on... in actual fact this Sunday was an easier day to hit the target than most days due to the fact that I only trade races that are over 9 furlongs or longer. I had 22 chances to build my bank today. Tomorrow I will only have 14 chances (including Ireland). The purpose for me in having a target isn't to suggest to myself what I should win but to suggest to myself what I should be content to win - and then to step back early (if I can) and mentally prepare for the next trading day.

I'll talk in specifics about today... My target for today was to get an overall 10% profit on my bank. If I had traded all 22 UK races I would have needed to average a 0.45% profit per race.

After race 1 my bank stood at 12.6% up on the starting point (12.6% up on carried forward bank)
After race 2 my bank stood at 17.0% up on the starting point (3.8% up on carried forward bank)
After race 3 my bank stood at 17.7% up on the starting point (0.6% up on carried forward bank)
After race 4 my bank stood at 18.1% up on the starting point (0.3% up on carried forward bank)
After race 5 my bank stood at 12.9% up on the starting point (-4.1% down on carried forward bank)
After race 6 my bank stood at 13.5% up on the starting point (0.6% up on carried forward bank)
After race 7 my bank stood at 13.9% up on the starting point (0.3% up on carried forward bank)
After race 8 my bank stood at 13.9% up on the starting point (no change on carried forward bank)

Tomorrow to hit my target I will need to have an average bank increase per race of 0.72% so it seems unlikely that can be reached tomorrow. On most such days with a low number of long distance races I know I can't hit the target but I don't mind so long as I am up overall.

I can see a logic, of course, in having an average per race target rather than a per day target... but that wouldn't meet my aims of knowing when to stop each day.
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