How do you spoof fake orders?

[Lucacrebbe]

Hello

How do you spoof fake orders placed only to increase the Weight of money and forcing the market partecipant to think that the market is going to move in one direction or another?

Could you share your tecniques to recognize the spoofed orders?

Thank you

[ShaunWhite]

Come lo fai, o come lo riconosci? I guess you mean how to recognise it, because for you to try and do it would be very unwise.

They are often sized out of proportion to the money already present in the market. They also tend to be removed if the price moves towards them, or they start to be taken.

You've basically answered your own question; 1. they are large enough to affect the WoM, and 2. they don't behave as though they don't want to be matched.

If done correctly, they can be quite hard to spot if you don't have much experience. For instance they might be spilt over the top 3 prices (traditionally used to calculate WoM) rather than being one huge clumsy lump, or maybe the sizing is sufficient to affect the WoM, without being so large they attract attention.

If you try and think of how you would do it, you might be able to see someone else trying the same trick.

[Lucacrebbe]

Come lo fai, o come lo riconosci? I guess you mean how to recognise it, because for you to try and do it would be very unwise.

They are often sized out of proportion to the money already present in the market. They also tend to be removed if the price moves towards them, or they start to be taken.

You've basically answered your own question; 1. they are large enough to affect the WoM, and 2. they don't behave as though they don't want to be matched.

If done correctly, they can be quite hard to spot if you don't have much experience. For instance they might be spilt over the top 3 prices (traditionally used to calculate WoM) rather than being one huge clumsy lump, or maybe the sizing is sufficient to affect the WoM, without being so large they attract attention.

If you try and think of how you would do it, you might be able to see someone else trying the same trick.

Thank you shaunwhite


Can I make you an example to let you understand what I am talking about?


So let's suppose the best three BACK odds would be: 1,25 (200$) ---1,24 (1000$) --- 1,23 (2000$) with a total WOM on the back side of 30'000 $

ON THE LAY side instead the best odds are : 1,22 (3000$) -----1,21 (2000$) -----1,20 (5000$) with a WOM on the LAY side of 29'000 $

Let's suppose someone with 10k wants to influence the market down of a few ticks to get some profits... he wants to put the price of the BACK odds down from 1,25 to 1,20.

What would he do?


Would he split the 10k among the best 3 BACK odds (1,25---1,24---1,23)?

Or would he place the back odds at higher odds as open orders (1,30---1,31----1,32) in order to push the market down of few ticks, or would he place his bets just before the best three odds in the back side (so at 1,20---1,21---1,22) ?

Thank you for your answer

[Dallas]

Thank you sunwhite

At least you got a thank you this time sunnyboy

[Lucacrebbe]

Thank you sunwhite

At least you got a thank you this time sunnyboy

sorry I have read wrong his nickname... sorry.

[ShaunWhite]

Thank you sunwhite

At least you got a thank you this time sunnyboy

sorry I have read wrong his nickname... sorry.

That's OK. I've been called worse things.

Luca, there are no guarantees about which way the market will move but often it will move away from the money. So in your example they would be backing at 1.3,1.31,1.32.

The idea is to make people think somebody wants to bet, but is trying to get a slightly better price than the current price. Other people see that and bet themselves but take the current price and it pushes the price down.... Or the opposite.

I does have big BIG dangers. The market has a lot of very clever people in it. For everyone who is trying to manipulate the market, there is somebody who is trying to take advantage of them. You put your 10k in at 1.3, somebody thinks it should be 1.4 and bang, your money taken and the market goes 1.4 then 1.5 then 1.6 and ouch!

Learn to see the spoof money but I strongly recommend to don't try to do it yourself.

[spreadbetting]

Learn to see the spoof money but I strongly recommend to don't try to do it yourself.

I think Luca prefers to ask qustions rather than bet, Shaun

[ShaunWhite]

Learn to see the spoof money but I strongly recommend to don't try to do it yourself.

I think Luca prefers to ask qustions rather than bet, Shaun

I know, but he might not be the only one reading the answers. If I thought that was the case I might not bother to reply because he does live in a hypothetical world (hypothetical is kinder than saying fantasy)

[Derek27]

Luca, do you not think you are over-analysing trading - all theory, no practice.

As I keep saying, the best way to get a feel for how markets work is to experiment with €2 bets. If the market moves against you you can trade out for a 20 cent loss but what you can learn from it is invaluable.