POC and volume profile

[Derek27]

I was expecting you to have that information off the top of your head.

[Lucacrebbe]

For information purposes only Luca, here's what an MFI chart looks like in excel.

http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php? ... _index_mfi

Whta's the difference between this one MFI and a simple WOM?

Sorry for the noob question... I am a noob, evryone just start out from somenthing...It' s not a fault if I want to learn as much as possible

[Lucacrebbe]

how do you connect excel to Bet Angel

It's described in the BA user guide. But to be honest Luca, VPOC & POC won't help you at your stage. I won't take money from you for development work that I know is a waste of time because that would be immoral. I was just interested to know what development budget you had, but as you avoided that answer I assume you don't actually have a budget to go with the account you don't have.

By the way why didn't you get excel and start learning? If you'd done that you would be 3 months in now and getting quite good. From what I can see 'Project Luca' hasn't really made any progress yet has it?

So, make some progress. Do some trading, get excel, start using google to find out things like 'what's vba' instead of ask me and I might (and it's a very small might) think about helping you out with excel, after you have learnt the basics yourself. But I have to say you'll be at the end of a queue of people who deserve help far more than you do.

(To any newbies browsing this thread, this is not the normal response for requests for help at all, it's the end(?) of a very long, frustrating saga)

My budget is not sufficient at the moment... I can't code in VBA this is the problem. I would have to learn trading, I would have to learn how to beat the market and also to code in VBA? The last thing it seems too much...

I am just starting out learning how to make linear statistical regression, modelling using IBM software and Google cloud... so learning VBA at this point it's too much for my brain storage, please.

I know waht is VPOC and POC
POC is the price which has been hit the major of time during the match, the odd that market players consider the most fair

VPOC is instead where the most of volume is concentrating at a given time of the match.

Both can help you to take decisions, because you can evaluate which price the market consider as a value price , a ''fair odd''

Both can be seen as point for enter or exit into a trading, in combination with RSI or MACD also, which are momentum indicators as well

It's not complicated to understand the meaning of VPOC or POC, what is complicated is to have a real-time HISTOGRAM BARs which displays the changing volume /changing POC for some-one who is not a VBA coder. And does not have time to learn.

BetAngel should provide POC and VPOC as built-in indicators... it's not good that I have to learn VBA to make the VPOC or POC indicator by-myself

[Jukebox]

If you really believe there is an indicator that will give you an edge at seeing which way the prices will be going you ought to be pleased that its not generally available - the effort of creating it will be so much more rewarding.

[ShaunWhite]

Luca,

Why do you think it is that BA doesn't have these indicators?

Why do you think it's useful when traders with 15yrs experience do not?

You have too much to learn because you are learning the wrong things! You have been told this many many many MANY times.

And why ask for software if you have no budget?

You need to give up now because with your attitude you well never be a trader. Get a job.

[ShaunWhite]

You have made 153 postings and I guess about 1000 replies and you still don't understand what you need to do!

Why?

[Derek27]

Have you thought about studying medicine Luca? It only takes seven years.

The way you're going it's going to take you ten years to learn everything you want to know about trading, and when you finally start you'll realise it was all a complete waste of time - nothing beats experience. You'll then have to start learning all over again.

[Derek27]

I can't code in VBA this is the problem

It's not a problem at all. Many traders including me trade successfully without using VBA.

.Both can help you to take decisions, because you can evaluate which price the market consider as a value price , a ''fair odd''... Both can be seen as point for enter or exit into a trading, in combination with RSI or MACD also, which are momentum indicators as well

How the f**k would you know, you haven't even got any experience of trading with real money?

[Lucacrebbe]

I can't code in VBA this is the problem

It's not a problem at all. Many traders including me trade successfully without using VBA.

.Both can help you to take decisions, because you can evaluate which price the market consider as a value price , a ''fair odd''... Both can be seen as point for enter or exit into a trading, in combination with RSI or MACD also, which are momentum indicators as well

How the f**k would you know, you haven't even got any experience of trading with real money?

I have experience with real money, on Betfair.it

Anyway If I could see the ladder, and have some indicators like MFI, RSI, MACD, VPOC would be great because I would have a better understanding of what' s going in the market.

It' s like to play but blind... that's how I feel without those indicators. I am not saying you can't be profitable without them, I am saying that those help you to be profitable

When you have the POC, the VPOC and you know that at a given point the volume is decreasing, you know that you have to exit if you don't want a big hit... that' s it.

I have the money for the software, forgive me If first I try to learn instead of just gambling money away just to try... I am a strategical guy, I mean I plan very accuratley my entry point, I never enter into a trade (in trading or in real life) without having collected a lot of informations, experience, etc..

Forgive me if I am not a gambler.


P.S. for the moment I am relegated to play only on Betfair.IT, but I am going to UK and soon I will open a Betfair account... so I don't see why it would be such a bad thing just to ask for informations, and experience to old traders like you, whith your experice you could share some tips if you would... I don't see asking for informations as a bad thing

[Derek27]

...I am saying that those help you to be profitable

When you have the POC, the VPOC and you know that at a given point the volume is decreasing, you know that you have to exit if you don't want a big hit... that' s it.

The question I was asking is, how do you know they would be helpful if you've never used them?

I've used a lot of charts, never found them useful and no longer bother with them.

(Shaun, he's got the money for the software, better get down to work ).

[Lucacrebbe]

...I am saying that those help you to be profitable

When you have the POC, the VPOC and you know that at a given point the volume is decreasing, you know that you have to exit if you don't want a big hit... that' s it.

The question I was asking is, how do you know they would be helpful if you've never used them?

I've used a lot of charts, never found them useful and no longer bother with them.

(Shaun, he's got the money for the software, better get down to work ).

Because I trade also the stock market, and every market works the same if you look at same parameters. Markets are different, but if in an area there is no volume, there's no interest in that odd ok? It's not difficult to understand

Let's make an example:

I have backed an horse at 3 at a cross bearish MACD and the RSI is going above below 80... ok?

I am riding a nice downword movement now... well I am happy, I am in profit... the smile is on my face.

Ok but when to exit? When to exit at the most profitable point of wiev (for me)?

Here comes in the market overwiev... the MFI and VPOC

Taking the example above, if I' ll see the VPOC at 2,50 I'll know that this is an important area to look at, because is here where there is the most of movement, and I should care about this area because here is where somenthing' s gonna happen

So I'll have two choises:

--exit near to the VPOC

or

-- wait for the VPOC and see what it does. If the VPOC starts going up at another price/odd level, it's time to exit because it means that the market is reacting very quickly to somenthing

If the VPOC goes even lower, it's time to relax and keep on riding the downtrend

[Derek27]

...I am saying that those help you to be profitable

When you have the POC, the VPOC and you know that at a given point the volume is decreasing, you know that you have to exit if you don't want a big hit... that' s it.

The question I was asking is, how do you know they would be helpful if you've never used them?

I've used a lot of charts, never found them useful and no longer bother with them.

(Shaun, he's got the money for the software, better get down to work ).

Because I trade also the stock market, and every market works the same if you look at same parameters. Markets are different, but if in an area there is no volume, there's no interest in that odd ok? It's not difficult to understand

Let's make an example:

I have backed an horse at 3 at a cross bearish MACD and the RSI is going above below 80... ok?

I am riding a nice downword movement now... well I am happy, I am in profit... the smile is on my face.

Ok but when to exit? When to exit at the most profitable point of wiev (for me)?

Here comes in the market overwiev... the MFI and VPOC

Taking the example above, if I' ll see the VPOC at 2,50 I'll know that this is an important area to look at, because is here where there is the most of movement, and I should care about this area because here is where somenthing' s gonna happen

So I'll have two choises:

--exit near to the VPOC

or

-- wait for the VPOC and see what it does. If the VPOC starts going up at another price/odd level, it's time to exit because it means that the market is reacting very quickly to somenthing

If the VPOC goes even lower, it's time to relax and keep on riding the downtrend

That's right. Keep riding the down trend, make lots of money, and then WAKE UP - the dream's over and it's back to the Bet Angel forum looking for a way to make money.

Exchange markets are totally different to stock markets in that stock markets don't have overrounds and the stocks are not inter-connected. MACD was designed to work on longer term markets. It is, in my opinion, no use in horse racing markets because they're moving too fast.

Charts have absolutely no purpose for in-play tennis or football because the odds are driven by how the match is being played.

[Lucacrebbe]

The question I was asking is, how do you know they would be helpful if you've never used them?

I've used a lot of charts, never found them useful and no longer bother with them.

(Shaun, he's got the money for the software, better get down to work ).

Because I trade also the stock market, and every market works the same if you look at same parameters. Markets are different, but if in an area there is no volume, there's no interest in that odd ok? It's not difficult to understand

Let's make an example:

I have backed an horse at 3 at a cross bearish MACD and the RSI is going above below 80... ok?

I am riding a nice downword movement now... well I am happy, I am in profit... the smile is on my face.

Ok but when to exit? When to exit at the most profitable point of wiev (for me)?

Here comes in the market overwiev... the MFI and VPOC

Taking the example above, if I' ll see the VPOC at 2,50 I'll know that this is an important area to look at, because is here where there is the most of movement, and I should care about this area because here is where somenthing' s gonna happen

So I'll have two choises:

--exit near to the VPOC

or

-- wait for the VPOC and see what it does. If the VPOC starts going up at another price/odd level, it's time to exit because it means that the market is reacting very quickly to somenthing

If the VPOC goes even lower, it's time to relax and keep on riding the downtrend

That's right. Keep riding the down trend, make lots of money, and then WAKE UP - the dream's over and it's back to the Bet Angel forum looking for a way to make money.

Exchange markets are totally different to stock markets in that stock markets don't have overrounds and the stocks are not inter-connected. MACD was designed to work on longer term markets. It is, in my opinion, no use in horse racing markets because they're moving too fast.

Charts have absolutely no purpose for in-play tennis or football because the odds are driven by how the match is being played.

You are right, the difference is that the sport exange is a too fast market, if compared to the stock' s market. You can be right Dereck, my opinion is that you can see always somenthing reading the indicators.. at least you would have an idea of what the market thinks about a match... ok, maybe it's not so much, but it's always one indicator more in your ''arsenal''