is the sportbook the mainsite nowadays for betfair?

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napshnap
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:32 pm
I can never understand why people moan about Betfair wanting to make money any way they can from 'regular' punters. So long as they continue to spend on IT and marketing in the way they do it's in our interests for them to have deep pockets.

If the sportsbook didn't make the money it does, exchange fees would have to be higher and professional users (not just traders) would suffer. It's a fallacy that without the sports book the exchange would be busier, it's aimed at a totally different type of customer. That's like saying Harrods would be busier if you closed Lidl.
You are being a devils advocate, Shaun.
Betfair's sportsbook taking away all new blood, regulars loose interest and leave and as a result, we see liquidity reduces every year, even bf admitted it and intensified exchange's advertising.
Really strange to hear such a nonsense from a pro like you.
Last edited by napshnap on Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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napshnap
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If the sportsbook didn't make the money it does, exchange fees would have to be higher and professional users (not just traders) would suffer.
Tell it to the 60% PC payers, Shaun.
Maybe you are being sarcastic or just joking, I don't know.
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Naffman
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napshnap wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:44 am
If the sportsbook didn't make the money it does, exchange fees would have to be higher and professional users (not just traders) would suffer.
Tell it to the 60% PC payers, Shaun.
Maybe you are being sarcastic or just joking, I don't know.
It's easy to say that when you don't pay any PC...

20% is bareable (even though it's still a disgrace) but 40-60% are surely soul destroying come the next Wednesday!

I reckon I'm about 50/50 whether to keep trading when I hit the higher charges and I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat too.
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napshnap
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Naffman wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:56 am
napshnap wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:44 am
If the sportsbook didn't make the money it does, exchange fees would have to be higher and professional users (not just traders) would suffer.
Tell it to the 60% PC payers, Shaun.
Maybe you are being sarcastic or just joking, I don't know.
It's easy to say that when you don't pay any PC...

20% is bareable (even though it's still a disgrace) but 40-60% are surely soul destroying come the next Wednesday!

I reckon I'm about 50/50 whether to keep trading when I hit the higher charges and I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat too.
I can tolerate those 40-60% charges, cause I hope that at least 80% of my manual trading will be covered by my bots. But I can't pretend that everything is ok with bf's politics.
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SeaHorseRacing
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If I was running the Gambling Commision I can tell everybody now I wouldn’t even allow a company who created the exchange have a sportsbook under the same website name!

Betfair is very misleading and i actually believe it’s criminal to do that.

Look anyone can run whatever they wan but they should be under separate domains... same applies to sportsbook and casinos. They should be separate domains! That includes the entire industry.

The licences need to change...

It’s like the fobt machines... if they just changed them from being allowed in a betting shop... each high street would have either a fobt shop or betting shop...

Two separate outlets... the majority of these company’s profits come from casinos, fobts etc... but are exploited from a much fairer game like sportsbook...

Or in betfair a case the exchange exploits customers to use casino and soortsbook.
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Euler
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I didn't like the introduction of a sportsbook because I feared it would become front and centre stage and detract from the ground-breaking exchange proposition. Having touted the benefits of an exchange and clearly stood for that, it seemed to be a retrograde step. However, I was assured it was just a way to drive business to the exchange by appealing to your average joe who didn't understand the exchange. Fair enough.

IMHO the sportsbook in its current form undermines the many benefits of the exchange, to punters it just feels like Betfair is just a normal bookie, there is little understanding of what is possible. It's created quite a bit of confusion: -

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/ ... l-winnings

The simple thing to do was to skin a sportsbook and drop the bets into an exchange, that was a perfect model. Everybody would win. I think this is what the other exchanges will do eventually. They can do that and undermine Betfair's current position and know that Betfair will not respond because they are hooked on the sportsbook margins.

I think you can see evidence of this in the way the sportsbook has evolved. Initially, Betfair said that cash-out on the sports book was an example of exchange technology being used but slowly cashing out was done internally. Then they introduced, to great fan-fare, price rush. This was also thanks to the benefit of the exchange, but again that slowly got phased out and rushes were done internally then phased out altogether. When the PP takeover happened it was just sportsbook all the way and they went 2 years or so without a single exchange advert being run. It's good to see that change now, but to average joe it's just a sportsbook I reckon. There is a lot of work to be done.

When I log into Betfair it defaults to the sportsbook, I can't seem to stop it from doing that despite not being the slightest bit interested in it. Most visitors will probably not find the exchange unless they actively seek to do so. It's up to us to tell people about the benefits of the exchange.
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Euler
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I always thought the best strategic fit would be to use the brand flutter as a sportsbook and betfair as the exchange. Nice and neat and easy to play to both strengths.
JTEDL
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I'm sure the figures are out there somewhere, but does anyone know how much profit Betfair make from Sportsbook compared with the Exchange?
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Euler
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JTEDL wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:26 am
I'm sure the figures are out there somewhere, but does anyone know how much profit Betfair make from Sportsbook compared with the Exchange?
Betfair decided a few years ago after Paddy Power took over to consolidated the figures into one group, so it's impossible to know. Prior to that, they used to split them out.
spreadbetting
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napshnap wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:42 am
ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:32 pm
I can never understand why people moan about Betfair wanting to make money any way they can from 'regular' punters. So long as they continue to spend on IT and marketing in the way they do it's in our interests for them to have deep pockets.

If the sportsbook didn't make the money it does, exchange fees would have to be higher and professional users (not just traders) would suffer. It's a fallacy that without the sports book the exchange would be busier, it's aimed at a totally different type of customer. That's like saying Harrods would be busier if you closed Lidl.
You are being a devils advocate, Shaun.
Betfair's sportsbook taking away all new blood, regulars loose interest and leave and as a result, we see liquidity reduces every year, even bf admitted it and intensified exchange's advertising.
Really strange to hear such a nonsense from a pro like you.

I don't think Shaun's playing devil's advocate it's probably just easier to assume some kind of 'moral high ground' when your wife's picking up the tab for your follies. I'm sure if he ever finds himself in the 60% bracket we'd have some turnaround.
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napshnap
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Euler wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:20 am
Most visitors will probably not find the exchange unless they actively seek to do so. It's up to us to tell people about the benefits of the exchange.
It's ridiculous that we should do the bf's job to teach and attract newcomers to exchange and pay bf for that at a same time, BUT lets assume we decided to do that: we identified countries with biggest exchange's share (we can dig old statistics available), then identified major internet platforms (sites, social networks), then prepared good and clear explanation and instructions, FAQ, videos. Eg "when you got to the bf's site find exchange link, click here click there", instruction for idiot.
Will all that work or our efforts will be buried by another questionable momentary bf's initiative?
Anna List
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spreadbetting wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:13 am
napshnap wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:42 am
ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:32 pm
I can never understand why people moan about Betfair wanting to make money any way they can from 'regular' punters. So long as they continue to spend on IT and marketing in the way they do it's in our interests for them to have deep pockets.

If the sportsbook didn't make the money it does, exchange fees would have to be higher and professional users (not just traders) would suffer. It's a fallacy that without the sports book the exchange would be busier, it's aimed at a totally different type of customer. That's like saying Harrods would be busier if you closed Lidl.
You are being a devils advocate, Shaun.
Betfair's sportsbook taking away all new blood, regulars loose interest and leave and as a result, we see liquidity reduces every year, even bf admitted it and intensified exchange's advertising.
Really strange to hear such a nonsense from a pro like you.

I don't think Shaun's playing devil's advocate it's probably just easier to assume some kind of 'moral high ground' when your wife's picking up the tab for your follies. I'm sure if he ever finds himself in the 60% bracket we'd have some turnaround.
I'm with Shaun on this one.

Companies are in business to make money.

AFAIK, Betfair are doing it legally.

Morally?

That's a different matter.

I did not like the fact that Betfair introduced PC. So I voted with my feet and shall not return until it withdraws PC.

If people don't like the way that a company operates, vote with your feet. If sufficient people vote in this manner, Betfair will get the message and change or go bust. Sufficient people don't so Betfair continue to use and abuse their customers.

I've never understood anyone who bitches and moans about a company and still uses them.

Maybe it's me. Dunno.
Jukebox
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Yes its you
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ShaunWhite
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spreadbetting wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:13 am
I don't think Shaun's playing devil's advocate it's probably just easier to assume some kind of 'moral high ground' when your wife's picking up the tab for your follies. I'm sure if he ever finds himself in the 60% bracket we'd have some turnaround.
?What 'moral high ground'? I was just saying that without the sportbook income, it would have to come from somewhere, most likely from the likes of you, which would be unfair. And I was also creditting people with the necessary intellegence to get to the web site they actually want. Also pointing out that the 2 BF products suit 2 different types of customer. Hardly controversial or deserving of that attack.

Devils advocate?....occasionally, but that's because nothing is a binary, and I get bored with two-bob traders assuming they have genius ideas for BF business models, convinced by nothing but their own ego that multi-million pound Betfair have got it wrong.

btw You've no idea what my/our personal situation has been for the last 23yrs. We've never had the concept of "my money" and "her money", and even if we did, my credits would be well over 7 figures more, but so what. The concept of a married couple having separate pots of cash is ridiculous anyway, both put in what you can, both take what you want, nobody takes the piss. I have years off, she has years off and life could not be sweeter. If that's not your situation then I don't give a fck, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't give a fck about mine either, ditto anyone else who feels the need to chip in.
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ShaunWhite
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Anna List wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:59 pm
I've never understood anyone who bitches and moans about a company and still uses them.
Self interest and greed, they can't make more elsewhere and aren't prepared to miss a pound to make a point.
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