Account Closure (Betfair live market data)

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LinusP
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Dallas wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:13 am
LinusP wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:08 am

Dallas I assume it is turned on by default?
No its defaulted to polling
That would explain all the threads like this.
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Dallas
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LinusP wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:20 pm
Dallas wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:13 am
LinusP wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:08 am

Dallas I assume it is turned on by default?
No its defaulted to polling
That would explain all the threads like this.
The main reason for it still using polling is just because it's the more stable of the two, once BF get there act together then it could be switched over to become the default.
Phoenix
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Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 12:34 pm

Phoenix wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:59 pm
Thanks Dallas. So with that scratched bet how much commission do Betfair make?
Sorry, you answered this when explaining the scratched trade.
LinusP
Posts: 1871
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Dallas wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:45 pm
LinusP wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:20 pm
Dallas wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:13 am


No its defaulted to polling
That would explain all the threads like this.
The main reason for it still using polling is just because it's the more stable of the two, once BF get there act together then it could be switched over to become the default.
I have been using streaming in production for over two years, from memory streaming has only had issues (an issue which didn’t impact polling as well) once or twice with the latest being at least a year ago. With streaming simply sitting on top of the matching / transaction engine via Kafka (distributed and highly resilient) if Betfair goes down it doesn’t seem to matter if it’s streaming or polling, we are all screwed.
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Derek27
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Dallas wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:45 pm
It wasn't all matched here but you can see the options available in the image below, click the now £0.00 P/L figure to cancel the rest and place a lay bet of £34.19 (equal to what has been matched of my back bet) and that will scratch the position, but i'll have placed £68.38 of bets generating a few quid commission for BF.
Or I could have waited for the full £50 to be matched then do the same
Or I could instantly have taken a 1 tick loss of 32p
Surely when you scratch trade, no profit is made, no commission is paid and therefore no commission is generated regardless of the size of trade?
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Dallas
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Derek27 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:58 pm
Dallas wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:45 pm
It wasn't all matched here but you can see the options available in the image below, click the now £0.00 P/L figure to cancel the rest and place a lay bet of £34.19 (equal to what has been matched of my back bet) and that will scratch the position, but i'll have placed £68.38 of bets generating a few quid commission for BF.
Or I could have waited for the full £50 to be matched then do the same
Or I could instantly have taken a 1 tick loss of 32p
Surely when you scratch trade, no profit is made, no commission is paid and therefore no commission is generated regardless of the size of trade?
You won't have any to pay but whoever took the winning side of your bet will
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Derek27
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Dallas wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:59 am
Derek27 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:58 pm
Dallas wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:45 pm
It wasn't all matched here but you can see the options available in the image below, click the now £0.00 P/L figure to cancel the rest and place a lay bet of £34.19 (equal to what has been matched of my back bet) and that will scratch the position, but i'll have placed £68.38 of bets generating a few quid commission for BF.
Or I could have waited for the full £50 to be matched then do the same
Or I could instantly have taken a 1 tick loss of 32p
Surely when you scratch trade, no profit is made, no commission is paid and therefore no commission is generated regardless of the size of trade?
You won't have any to pay but whoever took the winning side of your bet will
Not if they scratched as well. :)

I would have thought you wouldn't be credited for generating commission because there's no implied commission generated but perhaps you get credit for adding liquidity to the market, which will encourage other traders and bettors to generate commission, and prevent you from falling foul of their data usage policy.
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Dallas
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Derek27 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:09 am
Dallas wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:59 am
Derek27 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:58 pm

Surely when you scratch trade, no profit is made, no commission is paid and therefore no commission is generated regardless of the size of trade?
You won't have any to pay but whoever took the winning side of your bet will
Not if they scratched as well. :)

I would have thought you wouldn't be credited for generating commission because there's no implied commission generated but perhaps you get credit for adding liquidity to the market, which will encourage other traders and bettors to generate commission, and prevent you from falling foul of their data usage policy.
The way it works is Betfair will restrict data to accounts of users who's activity they don't make any money from and who are just putting a strain on their servers by retrieving market updates, this could be through using Practice mode or just sitting watching markets/ gathering data (it's all the same thing).

Providing they earn revenue from your activity then they'll leave you alone, therefore you could place 1000 bets which all lose so won't pay a penny in commission yourself but the other person will (but wouldn't be able to without your activity)

Unless you self match between two accounts or conspire with someone to match/scratch bets in which case they will soon spot this and restrict or even suspend both accounts very quickly.
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Derek27
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I get what you're saying Dallas, but the other person isn't necessarily a bettor, so he could scratch or trade for a one-tick profit or loss. They must just be satisfied with a user adding liquidity to a market and indirectly helping them to propagate commission.
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Dallas
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That's why I suggested the OP (and others) do this and are generating a commission for Betfair (which you will the moment you have any bet matched) it will keep them happy and your account unrestricted.
You don't need to be the side actually paying the commission otherwise a lot of people would soon find themselves with restricted data.
pythonic
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:20 pm

Isnt implied commission derived from losses per market?
I'm not sure they would leave you alone if you just do lots of zero P/L scratch trades.
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BetScalper
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Just pay the £299 you cheap skates. :lol:
spreadbetting
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Isn't £299 just for API access, I'd guess their commercial licences are a bit higher than that.
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Derek27
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pythonic wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:16 am
Isnt implied commission derived from losses per market?
I'm not sure they would leave you alone if you just do lots of zero P/L scratch trades.
My guess, and obviously it's pure guessing, is that they would take into account commission generated plus liquidity added to the market.

If a few traders between them chuck a couple of grand into the market and scratch, taking each other's trades, no commission is generated but it only takes one bettor to snap up £500 and pay £20-25 commission. Given that traders who scratch, scalp or make small percentage profits trading can do it repeatedly their contributions will add up to something worthwhile for Betfair.
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ShaunWhite
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BetScalper wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:29 am
Just pay the £299 you cheap skates. :lol:
You still need to generate commission if you have a £299 lifetime API licence. I checked with Neil when I first started running my own stuff in sim mode.

Neil T (Betfair Developer Support)
Oct 3, 14:47 BST
Hi Shaun,
Thanks for getting in touch
A few days is fine but if this extends to beyond that a restriction may be automatically applied. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Kind Regards,
Neil
Betfair Developer Program


They set the bar for commission really low and patterns of behavior come into it too, a couple of £2 trades every couple of days seems to be enough but if those happened to be at exactly the same times each day they might not be. And if that level continued for too long then a flag might go up. It's deliberately vague (aka unpublished) so that it's not just dead easy to swerve it.
Last edited by ShaunWhite on Wed May 29, 2019 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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