Betfair Suspension of Markets

[StellaBot]

Not sure where to put this post
But had a 3 figure football bet pre match now inplay
All markets suspended since inplay
Its half time(markets still suspended)
Conacted customer services
Advised they can suspend any market and it seems for how long as they like
in this instance

RoPS v IFK Mariehamn Finish League

EDIT Got live stream but cannot green up

[greenmark]

Open a betdaq account or a bookies account, you should be able to bet before the game ends and cover some of the loss or gain some of the profit. Otherwise you'll have to sweat it out. I've noticed in the past the lesser leagues can suspend for no apparent reason. Hopeffully someone will explain the possibe reasons it can happen. I know Betfair losing their live feed from the game can be one. But I don't know whether the live stream you can see is the same as the one they use to suspend/unsuspend.

[Kafkaesque]

Happens at regular intervals. I've written about it on here before, but consensus seems to be that it doesn't matter unless it effects people directly. To me it's an issue, because it shows BF's indifference to the exchange better than anything else. Which begs the question, why anyone is surprised when on the same day right now, the disease is spreading to horses.

It is in all likelyhood their service provider who hasn't been able to get a man to the match after all.

[greenmark]

You know your business better than me. I would question a 3 figure bet in a market that only achieved 3831 before it was suspended. I know those markets a little and that level of activity is quite common.

[spreadbetting]

Can hardly expect them to be continually monitoring a lower league match with only £3K matched on it to be fair, the comms due to Betfair from that probably wouldn't cover the cost of the feed let alone an operator. At the end of the day it's paid out in Stellabot's favour so all's well that ends well.

Certainly not ideal but if you're betting on obscure markets with low liquidity you need to have a backup plan as you can't rely on Betfair to keep the market open especially on a busy Saturday afternoon.

[greenmark]

Well game over so hope Stellabot had the right outcome.

[Kafkaesque]

Can hardly expect them to be continually monitoring a lower league match with only £3K matched on it to be fair, the comms due to Betfair from that probably wouldn't cover the cost of the feed let alone an operator. At the end of the day it's paid out in Stellabot's favour so all's well that ends well.

Certainly not ideal but if you're betting on obscure markets with low liquidity you need to have a backup plan as you can't rely on Betfair to keep the market open especially on a busy Saturday afternoon.

Fair point, but the issue isn't whether they should be doing so (offering in-play). Rather it's that they promote it as being offered in-play, before and even after the match has started without going in-play. You say it can't be expected, but is it really unreasonable to hold BF to giving the product, they promise and advertise?

I know and understand that issues with the Finnish top league has no effect on pretty every trader out there, myself included. But if the operating standard becomes to make promises regarding markets going in-play and playing loose and fast with whether to keep the promise, we're all fucked. As per usual the market was live on the Sportsbook, so a reasonable assumption that it's down to the Exchange using a cheaper provider option than the SB. The nature of the league and day of the week has zero relevance.

[spreadbetting]

Fair point, but the issue isn't whether they should be doing so (offering in-play). Rather it's that they promote it as being offered in-play, before and even after the match has started without going in-play. You say it can't be expected, but is it really unreasonable to hold BF to giving the product, they promise and advertise?

They're not promising anything, it's quite clear in the rules they may not put the game in play

If this market is scheduled to go in-play, but due to unforeseen circumstances we are unable to offer the market in-play, then this market will be re-opened for the half-time interval and suspended again an hour after the scheduled kick-off time. Whilst it is our intention to re-open this market for the half-time interval, in certain circumstances this may not always be possible.

I know and understand that issues with the Finnish top league has no effect on pretty every trader out there, myself included. But if the operating standard becomes to make promises regarding markets going in-play and playing loose and fast with whether to keep the promise, we're all fucked. As per usual the market was live on the Sportsbook, so a reasonable assumption that it's down to the Exchange using a cheaper provider option than the SB.

Again they're not promising anything as their rules show.

May well be using different providers but more likely the exchange side needs to be actively managed for goals whereas the SB are standing the bets themselves so any operator input would only need taking when bets come in and I'd expect that match probably took very few in running if any on the SB. If anything you'd probably find trying to place a bet on the SB was also a fruitless exercise.

The nature of the league and day of the week has zero relevance.

In the real world it does. I'm not trying to be some Betfair apologist but on a busy Saturday with England's women playing, Wimbledon, a race going off every 5 minutes you can't really expect them to have staff tied up actively monitoring a game that may only trade £100 in running.

[Kai]

It doesn't matter too much whether you trade an obscure market like Rops vs Marianne over there or a premier league match, it's inevitable that your prematch trades eventually end up inplay so you really need to be prepared for that. My prematch trades on the premier league often get caught inplay whenever there's an outage and I usually use Betdaq to hedge out, although last time I hedged on the BF sportsbook for practical reasons. That means if most of your bank is tied up in prematch trades you basically need a 2nd trading bank elsewhere to cover your first one when these things happen. Otherwise it's only a matter of time before you get stung, you really can't count on Betfair to bail you out and that's the sad reality of it.

[Kafkaesque]

Fair point, but the issue isn't whether they should be doing so (offering in-play). Rather it's that they promote it as being offered in-play, before and even after the match has started without going in-play. You say it can't be expected, but is it really unreasonable to hold BF to giving the product, they promise and advertise?

They're not promising anything, it's quite clear in the rules they may not put the game in play

If this market is scheduled to go in-play, but due to unforeseen circumstances we are unable to offer the market in-play, then this market will be re-opened for the half-time interval and suspended again an hour after the scheduled kick-off time. Whilst it is our intention to re-open this market for the half-time interval, in certain circumstances this may not always be possible.

I know and understand that issues with the Finnish top league has no effect on pretty every trader out there, myself included. But if the operating standard becomes to make promises regarding markets going in-play and playing loose and fast with whether to keep the promise, we're all fucked. As per usual the market was live on the Sportsbook, so a reasonable assumption that it's down to the Exchange using a cheaper provider option than the SB.

Again they're not promising anything as their rules show.

May well be using different providers but more likely the exchange side needs to be actively managed for goals whereas the SB are standing the bets themselves so any operator input would only need taking when bets come in and I'd expect that match probably took very few in running if any on the SB. If anything you'd probably find trying to place a bet on the SB was also a fruitless exercise.

The nature of the league and day of the week has zero relevance.

In the real world it does. I'm not trying to be some Betfair apologist but on a busy Saturday with England's women playing, Wimbledon, a race going off every 5 minutes you can't really expect them to have staff tied up actively monitoring a game that may only trade £100 in running.

First, the rules vs promises. You're correct. Technically. But if that's the approach then the rules and regs are set up in a way, where their ass is always covered 100%, and they can bend us over at will. If you'll argue the side that it's okay for them to go back on an advertised service (let's use that, rather than promise), and calling it an "unforeseen circumstance" when the circumstance in question is in fact not unforeseen but a considered choice of cutting expenses, and that this is not a slippery slope against our common interests as traders, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Second, I think you've got a misconception of how in play works (for football at least). It is always outsourced and always someone at the venue with a device to suspend the market. It is never something which demands an extra set of hands on Betfair's end. It's never actively managed by Betfair.

Third, as per the second point it matters little that it's Finland. The service provider offers a service which includes Finland. They have to, because there might be bigger and more important matches coming up in these outskirts of Europe, so they'll need staff already hired and trained in using the device. What matters in the real world is that the home team here, RoPS, have a home match in an Europa League qual in two weeks against Aberdeen, which will surely have well beyond 3k matched pre, and the cheap service provider isn't reliable in this part of Europe. If RoPS sneak into the group stages and are drawn against Man United, it's really going to matter.

[pythonic]

The problem is: If they offer a market as "managed inplay" and then their feed becomes unreliable, then everyone who offers liquidity and doesn't have his own special feed (not TV pictures) risks getting picked off and that would undermine their credibility to manage a market inplay and ultimately kill liquidity.
They experimented with unmanaged live events before and there was no liquidity at all.
So it's a wise decision to just suspend the market if the feed becomes unreliable.
In big markets it hardly happens anyway.

[weemac]

Is it OK for them to go back on their advertised service? No, and I think they'd agree. But, like other exchanges, they cover themselves with so-called 'Terms and Conditions' and that will always let these firms off the hook. I don't think that will ever change.

[spreadbetting]

Second, I think you've got a misconception of how in play works (for football at least). It is always outsourced and always someone at the venue with a device to suspend the market. It is never something which demands an extra set of hands on Betfair's end. It's never actively managed by Betfair.

If that's the case it's no surprise they'll need a separate source than the sportsbook, the sortsbook will just receive up to date data along with many other books and actively manage their own odds/positions whereas if the guy on course is actively suspending the Betfair market you'd assume they'd be different people/devices especially as the SB is receiving data but exchange not. Maybe the BF terminal was broken who knows but it wouldn't make sense that Betfair didn't use the feed if it was available to them regardless of the amounts being matched.

Third, as per the second point it matters little that it's Finland. The service provider offers a service which includes Finland. They have to, because there might be bigger and more important matches coming up in these outskirts of Europe, so they'll need staff already hired and trained in using the device. What matters in the real world is that the home team here, RoPS, have a home match in an Europa League qual in two weeks against Aberdeen, which will surely have well beyond 3k matched pre, and the cheap service provider isn't reliable in this part of Europe. If RoPS sneak into the group stages and are drawn against Man United, it's really going to matter.

I'd imagine they'll put a bit more effort into ensuring a match against Man Utd is better managed than against IFK Mariehamn. Regardless of possible upcoming matches you're not going to get the same effort put into a game turning over £3K compared to possibly millions and you need to manage any positions accordingly. Expecting Betfair to use some games as 'loss leaders' just isn't going to happen.