How do you invest the money you make?

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trad1ngbull
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:55 pm

Hello,

At a certain level, profitable traders don't have more than a % of their total bankroll on Betfair.
  • How do you invest the money you make on Betfair or from another sources of income?
  • How do you diversificate? How do you mitigate the risks?
  • How do you budget for wants/expenses, emergencies, savings, stocks, investment assets, fund contributions, etc?
  • You don't invest at all? Why?
PS: Obviously, I'm not asking for personal details or concrete numbers, just focusing on an open and helpful discussion perspective to create a good debate among us about how the capital is being allocated by traders and how the risk is being managed with the current global economy standards.

Cheers
Last edited by trad1ngbull on Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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megarain
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I invest it in my kids education. University is about 50k if u are lucky, and maybe 65k if u are not.

Before I pay the bills to the university, I tend to stick the majority of spare in stock markets.

I use 2 main brokers :

Barclays : who do not have access to US shares, so u are mainly stuck investing in local stuff
Hargreaves landsdown : Who allow u to bur shares in US/Canada etc, but charge u forex fees etc.

Investing a similar amount in both, the Barclays account is up about 18% in a yr .. The US account about 26% (maily due to some great returns from Tesla/Nvidia/Advanced Micros/Apple) all of which, seem fully priced etc.

I am not a Finiancial Advisor, but most of those I have encountered, are useless. Do your own research.

If you are clever enough to make money from gambling, it is a deal easiler to pick decent quality stocks, which have sound fundamentals.

If financial advisors take offence .. good.
Last edited by megarain on Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

I just stick mine under the pillow, OK at making money just never bothered to invest it because I'm a bit lazy. No doubt most will go to helping my kids buy a house/flat soon enough. I remember when I first started earning decent money trading and the bank rang me to ask why I had over £50K sitting in my current account, I thought it was one of those scam calls so ended up transferring it to another bank in some crappy saving account.
LinusP
Posts: 1873
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Similar to megarain:

- Property
- Premium bonds (although after the recent cut, maybe not for much longer)
- HL account with investments in trackers (Vanguard is great)
- ISA's / LISA (my pension / free £1000 a year :D )
- Art

You might find this thread useful viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17054
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Wine, Women and Song
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Derek27
Posts: 23636
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

I wish I had stacks of surplus money to invest. ;)
PeterLe
Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

I have a combination of the above :D
First id say pay off all your debts that's an amazing feeling and brings about a sense of freedom
I invested in my children's education, one is now an IFA in her own right and looks after my money (She has a vested interest :D )
(i have a Hargreaves Longsdale account too ((Vanguard Life Strategy 60% Equity, which is doing very nicely) and a blend of investments
Finally, if you can, give some away to help close friends and family, just wish i could do more of this
Regards
Peter
Abraquay
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:46 am

Some of it went into Sirius Minerals :(
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PDC
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

megarain wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:37 pm
I use 2 main brokers :

Barclays : who do not have access to US shares, so u are mainly stuck investing in local stuff
Hargreaves landsdown : Who allow u to bur shares in US/Canada etc, but charge u forex fees etc.

Investing a similar amount in both, the Barclays account is up about 18% in a yr .. The US account about 26% (maily due to some great returns from Tesla/Nvidia/Advanced Micros/Apple) all of which, seem fully priced etc.
Are your quoted returns net of all costs and taxes? People tend to forget about including these when quoting their returns.

You should look at Robinhood and getting on the early access, You fees will disappear. Though that is coming to the whole of the UK market soon as has been the case in the US.
PeterLe wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:06 pm
First id say pay off all your debts that's an amazing feeling and brings about a sense of freedom.
...
(i have a Hargreaves Longsdale account too ((Vanguard Life Strategy 60% Equity, which is doing very nicely) and a blend of investments
I agree that paying off all debt is a nice feeling and brings a sense of freedom. However, in today's market that may be a poor purely financial decision.

Why do you use HL for your Vanguard funds and not Vanguard themselves? Last I looked you pay more fees with HL than direct with Vangaurd.

No one has yet mentioned SIPP's?

Vanguard launched their one this week. SIPP's make for a great investment vehicle given the tax rebates, especially if putting savings aside for family members, in particular children.

Many people don't know about the fact that non earners can get a "free" £720 each tax year as a top up from the Government if they pay in £2,880 into a SIPP. This can be done from the day someone (or your (grand)child) is born until the age of 75.

You can pay up to £40,000 of your earned income in a year, get tax free growth and the Government (for now) giving you the tax back on it at 20%/40%.

But even if you have no earned income don't forget you can still pay in £2,880 and get a £720 top up.

If investing for your children's future, they most likely have a time horizon of decades not years. So should be 100% equities. Set and forget.

As for investing, my advice and that of Warren Buffett's, stick to low cost index funds. Vanguard being my advice.

Though I am yet to meet anyone who invests in individual shares who says they lose over the long term, it's a bit like Betfair, "people never lose" on an individual basis, but when you look at the stats virtually no one actually does win over the long term (or in investing, beats the market average) despite what people say.

Read or listen to the book by Jack Bogle called "The little book of common sense investing":

To listen for free (speed up the play back!):
https://youtu.be/wvbwbOuBMhY

To buy:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Book-Co ... 119404509/

And then buy the one other book you will ever need on investing, The Simple Path To Wealth:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Simple-Path-We ... 533667926/

Your investing education will then be all but done and you don't need to spend any more effort on it bar the bare minimum.

You can be a very poor person who earns £10 million a year, where as someone earning £50,000 (or less) can be very wealthy. It isn't about, to a very large extent, what you earn, it is about what you spend.

Finally, remember there is an infinite amount of money to be made but a finite amount of time that you have, by the time your children leave for University you have already had around 95%+ of the time you will ever spend with them.
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PDC
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PDC wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:10 pm
You can be a very poor person who earns £10 million a year, where as someone earning £50,000 (or less) can be very wealthy. It isn't about, to a very large extent, what you earn, it is about what you spend.
Following on from this point, assuming the 4% safe withdrawal rate, for every £10,000 of additional annual expenditure at your retirement point you need to have an extra £250,000 saved!

Live off £100,000 a year, the argument goes you need to save £2,500,000.

Live off £25,000 a year, you need £625,000.

People tend not to like to have a down grade in their lifestyle once they have tasted "the good life" and most people suffer from keeping up with the Jone's and lifestyle creep.

Ask someone who is on their death bed what they regret and I bet it isn't the fact they didn't buy that nicer car or bigger house but it is more likely to be that they didn't spend more time with their family and friends, that could be as simple as going for a walk or bike ride or playing a board game and chatting.

These facts have a dramatic impact on the point at which you reach financial independence and spending time thinking about what it is you ultimately want to achieve and get out of life. Usually these things don't cost a lot of money.

This thread titled "What's your number" is worth reading, though it never did get the detailed post from Peter he said he would do (nudge):

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17872
trader44
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm

I invested mine in going to see the harlequin movie with my daughter and her friend .i spent £30 plus for tickets and food etc and we left after 15 minutes because my daughter said it wasnt her type ( having already see the trailers ) .. So not the best investment :lol: :lol:
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Derek27
Posts: 23636
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Location: UK

Trader Pat wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:15 pm
Wine, Women and Song
... and you squander the rest. ;)
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whimsies
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:37 am
Location: Uk

Haven't got to the stage of surplus money but have paid of car:)
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firlandsfarm
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Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

megarain wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:37 pm
If financial advisors take offence .. good.
Financial Advisors never take offence from people who don't understand them!

The problem is the gulfs between what a financial advisor can do for you, what they claim/think they can do for you and what your expectation is. Financial advisors are not investment managers, they are not stock brokers, they are like a GP. Their job is to understand your situation and refer you to specialists as appropriate. Just like a GP does. A financial advisor should ascertain your requirements and your risk profile and recommend the type of investments to suit. But like most things in life you get good ones and bad ones just like you get good bet traders and bad bet traders. :D
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megarain
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As a tangent .. how often do Financial Advisers carry the can for 'what turns out to be' - 'bad advice'

Its impossible to measure, so, expect its close to zero.

So, u are paying someone for advice, which may be world-class or not .. and have no recourse.

Its all bollox.

I have paid advisors 400 quid an hr, and all they do is get rich. They can all burn - diversification in shares should be achieved by buying half a dozen of the top 100 companies almost at random. Or, better still, as Buffet says, just put a regular chunk into the S&P 500. U won't go far wrong.
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