Business opportunity for knowledgeable traders

[tiberigc]

About 10 years ago I knew about a a guy, with whom I went to school and college with, that he was a great online poker player and grinder.
He did pretty well for himself and began to be pretty notorious, but being only one guy he could only do so much money and grind so much until being exhausted, he thought of a setup that would bring him money long-term.
He rented an apartment and bought 6 PC's, went on to select 6 guys that he would teach and supervise day in and day out, people that would play MTTs and SNGs at pokerstars for multiple hours a day. In exchange for his knowledge and resources, they signed a multi-year contract that would stipulate that they give up 20-25% of their profits and they would play on his behalf using his money as stakes.
I do not know how that worked out because I lost track of the guy but it sounds like something that could be done in sports trading as well.
A good trader could "automate" manual work, or better yet, outsource trading and have a profit return in exchange for training and shadowing.

Has anyone thought of this?



ps: my private inbox is ready

[darchas]

I think one difference that I can see is that in poker there is an increase in skill required (generally) as you move up in stakes. So there might be an incentive for players who reach their skill ceiling to take their knowledge and share it to allow others to beat that same stake on a sort of 'coaching for profits' deal.

There's not really an equivalent in trading. If you can win with £2 stakes then generally you can win with £100 stakes. It's not a direct comparison as there is a cap where using more money doesn't give the same results due to how the market works. Introducing others to work in the same way only increases the amount of money on one side and would likely result in diminishing returns, but I'll leave others to comment on this.

[Kai]

they signed a multi-year contract that would stipulate that they give up 20-25% of their profits and they would play on his behalf using his money as stakes

But traders already signed a multi-year contract and give up 20-60% of their profits and play on Betfair's behalf using their own money?

Don't think they would like to sign another one

Grindy approaches should be avoided if possible, any excess knowledge and edges can always go to automation or be put to use elsewhere down the road.

[johnsheppard]

I would say your problem would be staff turn over You'd train your guys up, after the contract ended it'd be more profitable for them to leave. Who's money would they be using? How noobie are the guys working for you, are they profitable already, why would they work for you?

You could, perhaps get a custom copy of BetAngel made, it'd have to be back to front and upside down....train your guys on that...then they CANT leave...

I would think you'd need to have some other value to encourage your peoples to keep working for you...(perhaps technology managed for them or a drug dealer on hand or some such thing)...

I'd say it's all been thought of anyway...what do the financial trading firms do? I am sure they have all the same issues in parallel...

Then you got group think problems...
Then do you really wanna work with other people anyway

[ShaunWhite]

A good trader could "automate" manual work, or better yet, outsource trading and have a profit return in exchange for training and shadowing.
Has anyone thought of this?

It's called a syndicate, https://www.indeed.co.uk/Sports-Betting ... 652f78b694

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[Bally]

The Brighton & Hove FC Chairman Tony Bloom's company StarLizard has over 100 fulltime sports traders trading all sports (massively on Football and Cricket) with mainly his money. The company also has a number of large customer syndicates where people invest with him. Reportedly has turned over billions and makes hundreds of millions in profit. The traders get paid bonuses on success rate. Tony Bloom is arguably the most successful sports trader in history.

[spreadbetting]

Reading about him and other football bettors here. https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... g.amp.html

Almost makes me want to switch to the football as trading races seems to be saturated.

[sniffer66]

I used to run a small poker bot farm back in the day, server full of VM's. I was in touch with guys who went the other route and bought up a room in the Philippines and paid locals peanuts to play multiple tables to a precise script - it wasn't easy to obfuscate botting software from poker site detection. Doing it that way brought in the human element - live chat, random clicking, odd mistakes etc

[wearthefoxhat]

Reading about him and other football bettors here. https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... g.amp.html

Almost makes me want to switch to the football as trading races seems to be saturated.

There's plenty of opportunity in the footy arena...just need to specialise in one area and own it.

Wilde.jpg

[Euler]

I've worked with or interfaced with most of the big syndicates and the like in my 20 years in the markets. They don't work the way you expect, which is often this dreamy vision of some organised fund or amazing level of insight that others don't have. That's just the public-facing perception, but it's far from reality.

The way sports trading work doesn't really lend itself to a prop desk or hedge fund. You would be surprised how effective some of the 'smaller' traders are compared to a syndicate or organised activity.

I've been approached quite a few times to join organised groups, but I'm doing just fine without them and don't want to give up an IP, so I'm happy to stay in the niche I occupy. I don't see any advantage of heading in the other direction.

[spreadbetting]

Reading about him and other football bettors here. https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... g.amp.html

Almost makes me want to switch to the football as trading races seems to be saturated.

There's plenty of opportunity in the footy arena...just need to specialise in one area and own it.


Wilde.jpg

It was Wilde that got me thinking about it. I get a weekly pc report at the moment and turnover more than him but don't get near his £900,000 profits

[Euler]

It was Wilde that got me thinking about it. I get a weekly pc report at the moment and turnover more than him but don't get near his £900,000 profits

I don't believe that profit figure is a real number. As an edge that would be something way out there in terms of a percentage, it's just not realistic.

I don't even know if this fund is still operating?

[spreadbetting]

I don't even know if this fund is still operating?

The fidens link goes to http://www.footballformlabs.com/ but thought you'd know as it's essential before you trade, apparently.

" The ability to mine information on vital statistics is a key part of finding an edge in any sports market. The vast range of data available in Form Labs makes it an essential tool for me before I trade any football match. "
Peter Webb Bet Angel founder

[jimibt]

I don't even know if this fund is still operating?

The fidens link goes to http://www.footballformlabs.com/ but thought you'd know as it's essential before you trade, apparently.

" The ability to mine information on vital statistics is a key part of finding an edge in any sports market. The vast range of data available in Form Labs makes it an essential tool for me before I trade any football match. "
Peter Webb Bet Angel founder

ooo -i can small a class action looming for misrepresentation!!

[megarain]

I now advise a hedge fund on certain sports.

The level of insight they have can be mind-bogglingly poor.

More than anything else, they want a strategy that can be scaled up. They always want more exposure.