General discussion : Trading for newbies - Part 2 Mindset

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Zenyatta
Posts: 1067
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:17 pm

Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:37 am

Yes, at least playing around with the big stakes, I received an education and now have an extremely good idea of what I'm up against.

UK horse racing markets are very very tough indeed nowadays, no question about it steven...bots are clearly pushing the price back and forth...any sort of price chasing and you're toast. Any lack of confidence and you're toast. And newbies are just cannon fodder.

nizzy99
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:49 pm

Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:40 am

Zenyatta,

So what your saying then is im having beginners luck, im yet to make a loss on a horse as a newbie I admit my stakes are small £2 but as it stands im returning 25p-50p so between 12.5% & 25% Return is fine for me as a learn, I have also only been trading at night as I work through the day, I admit I have been tempted by my early results to up my stakes but have resisted the urge to hold small until im sure im not just being lucky and it is because im reading into it correctly

steven1976
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am

Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:38 am

I just thought what's the point for a few ticks. I traded a 28/1 shot last night where there "appeared" to be money being matched backwards and forwards. I put in a certain position which basically aims to scratch the first position and get the second position in a better position so im not.sat behind their money in a queue. As soon as.I put these.positions in up pops 300s, 250s etc.... on the lay side at 28s. We both know the horse isn't winning so no one is.going to suddenly back these lay amounts in. I thought, what's the point. If they are going to just.use these wishy washy trades waiting for small money to come in and oppose it as long as it takes.

Also trading the favourite 20mins from the off, we all know most traders aren't active then. The second I get in a good position at the front of the book and slid in a few quid in front of their money, wipe out. Their amount and mine is perfectly wiped out. No one can suddenly change stakes that quick to randomly clean out the money to zero again and again.

If you know horses, now is the best time ever probably if your stakes are of the right size and confident in what you are back or laying as I think the market finds these harder to sell out than in the past but for I just don't enjoy it anymore when every single trade turns against small trades.

I guess bf will have to ask soon if the exchanges are hidden away behind the sports book, do their market makers attract new people to the markets by offering liquidity or do they turn away 5 potential new customers for every newbie mugged.

Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:32 am

Nizzy

Those are encouraging results. However, let me assure you that you will lose money on a horse sooner or later. The best traders in the world lose money all the time, so don't take that personally. :)

With greatest respect to Zenyatta and Steven, they have a jaded view of the markets which I don't believe reflects reality. Yes, the markets will sometimes spike against you, but logically they will spike in your favour just as often. And as for the view that some sinister figure is lurking around, waiting for you to move so that they can turn the tables on you, unless you are a big trader they won't even notice your activities (except in very weak markets, which are often best avoided anyway).

Jeff
nizzy99 wrote:Zenyatta,
So what your saying then is im having beginners luck, im yet to make a loss on a horse as a newbie I admit my stakes are small £2 but as it stands im returning 25p-50p so between 12.5% & 25% Return is fine for me as a learn, I have also only been trading at night as I work through the day, I admit I have been tempted by my early results to up my stakes but have resisted the urge to hold small until im sure im not just being lucky and it is because im reading into it correctly

steven1976
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am

Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:03 pm

Jeff, with the greatest respect, until you realize the flashing numbers are bollox you wont start making money..... If you think your going to look for a magical point where the odds hit 6.4 and everyone starts backing because the charts said so, you are very badly misinformed.

Don't take my posts as always serious. Sometimes, you have to flash around your left hand. Its a dirty game!

Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:26 pm

steven1976 wrote:If you think your going to look for a magical point where the odds hit 6.4 and everyone starts backing because the charts said so, you are very badly misinformed.
That's not my position.
steven1976 wrote:Sometimes, you have to flash around your left hand. Its a dirty game!
I've no idea what this means! :)

Jeff

LinusP
Posts: 1389
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:26 pm

steven1976 wrote:If you think your going to look for a magical point where the odds hit 6.4 and everyone starts backing because the charts said so, you are very badly misinformed.
You are looking at the wrong charts then.

I completely agree with you in regards to the flashing money, I have completely got rid of the ladder and just concentrate on the money. I know some use WOM but it just makes me want to kick my computer.

Jesy_par
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:29 am

Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:54 am

As I understand it, a natural thought process of a newbie trader will be powered by the emotional side of the brain which is much more powerful than the logical side of the brain as it has no experience in making trading decisions.

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