General discussion : Help for new traders - Focussing on Now Part 1

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ststsj
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:47 pm

Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:09 am

Hi traders
Looking for some advice or help.I've been having a go at trading one day cricket.I have been going ok backing laying the batting side.Today I went belly up as there was a big batting collapse.Is there any way to avoid the heavy loss or negate it to minimum loss ?

spreadbetting
Posts: 1877
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:00 pm

Sometimes things occur so quickly there's no way of avoiding a heavy loss, you just have to accept it and move on. If a heavy loss affects you badly then it's likely you're using too high a stake to start with, if those heavy losses are a regular occurence then it's likely your original strategy is based on nothing worthwhile.

I'd be surprised if a batting collapse occurred so quickly you couldn't have got out earlier for a smaller loss. I'm guessing you just sat watching in horror hoping for a comeback rather than adjusting your position when things started to go wrong. Probably more a case of you allowing lots of small losses aggregate into one heavy loss whilst you were trapped in the headlights.

Losses are always part of the game you just need to take them as soon as possible. There's nothing wrong with scratching trades or getting out for a small loss just to give yourself time to reassess where the markets going without the pressure of open trades. The situation you had is a perfect example of why you're told to let your profits run and cut your losses early.

skotten84
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:36 pm

Sat May 07, 2016 9:48 pm

Another great post and a poignant story JG, I am too easily distracted I know realise!

One of the ever financial traders I know maintains that successful trading should be clinical and boring. You apply your edge over and over again, that's it. It becomes boring but is insanely lucrative so you enjoy it and keep doing it.... That is what I'm aiming for!

cybernet69

Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:58 am

Hi,

Sounds like your stakes were too high to begin with.

I always follow the following rules:

Stake = 10% of your Bank.
Stoploss = 20% of your Stake.

Example:

Bank = £1,000
Stake = £100
Stoploss = £20

It's far from perfect and some would say that its too strict but my bank is never in any danger of going bust.

Hope that helps,

Cheers,

User avatar
Crazyskier
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 pm

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:25 pm

cybernet69 wrote:Hi,

Sounds like your stakes were too high to begin with.

I always follow the following rules:

Stake = 10% of your Bank.
Stoploss = 20% of your Stake.

Example:

Bank = £1,000
Stake = £100
Stoploss = £20

It's far from perfect and some would say that its too strict but my bank is never in any danger of going bust.

Hope that helps,

Cheers,
Actually, I'd say that the initial 10% is WAY too high for a newbie trader without a clear and defined strategy proved over at least a few months and a few thousand trades. Scale up using PROFITS is the biggest lesson that I took from PeterLe; as soon as you're back to your own deposited cash, scale down fast...

cybernet69

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:52 pm

I am only risking 2% of my bank.

Bluesky
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:42 am

I imagine CS is thinking that even though your theoretical risk is only 2%, actually placing 10% of your bank on one trade is rather high for a new trader. I am sure its fine for experienced and profitable traders, but I would agree with CS that for someone new, who does not know if they are going to be profitable or not. Then using 10% of your bank on each trade even with a stop at 2% would be too scary.

New traders will often blow up their first few banks, one of those reasons is taking positions too large for their emotions to cope with.

User avatar
Crazyskier
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 pm

Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:28 pm

Bluesky wrote:I imagine CS is thinking that even though your theoretical risk is only 2%, actually placing 10% of your bank on one trade is rather high for a new trader. I am sure its fine for experienced and profitable traders, but I would agree with CS that for someone new, who does not know if they are going to be profitable or not. Then using 10% of your bank on each trade even with a stop at 2% would be too scary.

New traders will often blow up their first few banks, one of those reasons is taking positions too large for their emotions to cope with.
Quite correct. My worst personal issue is 'spam-clicking' back prices on the LTP favourite at the closing stages IP. If only I could adjust to laying them at tiny odds, I'd have far more losses in terms of frequency but win money overall I'm sure...

How many times I've spent several hours slowly and consistently winning, only to find one bad race wipes out the entire day's winnings and sometimes more! This is SO frustrating and stems from a lack of discpline and as you say, positions that are too large for the emotions to deal with...

Bluesky
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:12 pm

Crazyskier wrote:This is SO frustrating and stems from a lack of discpline and as you say, positions that are too large for the emotions to deal with...
Don't be too hard on yourself CS, I think the vast majority of traders struggle with similar issues. Very few people have the right mind set as it were that's suitable for trading when they start. I do think however that one can slowly acquire the right mind set, but it takes time, patience and discipline. Unfortunately those three things are in short supply for the vast majority of people that start sports trading.

If you find that your decisions are becoming clouded due to their size, step them down a little. Its not a race to see how much money people can make is a short period of time.

Its very easy when reading forum posts to compare ones results with other posters, I can see how this can be useful in one respect. I also think though it can cause people to use large stake size because someone else who started around the same time as you is making more money.

We are all different and some people will pick all this stuff up quicker than others, most of course will never get it.

I would imagine there isn't a successful trader using this forum that hasn't had periods of extreme frustration, and thought that they would never get it.

stueytrader
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:08 pm

Bluesky wrote:

We are all different and some people will pick all this stuff up quicker than others, most of course will never get it.

I would imagine there isn't a successful trader using this forum that hasn't had periods of extreme frustration, and thought that they would never get it.
Too true - sadly, seems as though it's almost impossible to become a successful trader immediately, and without mashing your way through a number of different banks first. I'm only getting near to being what I consider a strong mental and practical approach to my trading, after losing a few banks on the way. I'd be very impressed by anyone who truly just started trading one day, and continually made money without a crash at some point. There's a saying in Psychology that you learn more from mistakes, and I think that's very true of trading.

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