Suggestions : CANDLESTICKS / Matchsticks / Last traded price chart

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Would you like to see candlestick movements next to ladders?

Poll ended at Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:05 pm

Yes
42
82%
No
9
18%
 
Total votes: 51
sherman
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:58 am

Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:21 pm

[quote="smoothoperator"]Peter, thanks very much indeed for installing these matchsticks or whatever we are referring to them as. They have made BA fully usable for me in day to day trading and I had a nice green day with it yesterday :)

Hi, can you point me in the direction to learn how to trade using the matchsticks for entry / exit points ?

trader-eric
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:49 pm

Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:59 am

Hi, I will be subscribing to Betangel-Trader when my trial finishes later this week and I'm hoping the Matchsticks will be updated in this version also, can anybody confirm either way please.
As a previous user of a competitor product I agree wholeheartedly with Smooth Operator that they are invaluable and even if they only serve to replicate a feature that a potential new customer is used to having and working with I'm sure many more will make the switch to Betangel like I am.
In fact in a recent survey I replied to I stated that Take SP was the no1 feature I like (that the competitor doesn't have) and the candlesticks was the no1 feature BA was missing. That was before I noticed this thread topic on my desktop yesterday and swooped on it. I was only saying to my wife a few days in from trialing BA that it was great, way better than xxx's , It's just a pity they don't have the LTP Matchsticks right next to the ladder where your major focus is and because I'm used to relying on them for a few strategies like Smooth Operator. Again, I hope they will be included in the basic Trader version be it for technical or marketing reasons as they were a conspicuous omission from my first look at BA and a fundamental trading tool In a key part of the screen like SO states. I have no requirement for automated trading or Guardian (at this stage anyway) and don't want to come across as wanting everything cheap in terms of not subscribing to professional for it, I genuinely consider this feature as part of a manual, cutting edge trading kit.

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Euler
Posts: 16106
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ
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Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:04 pm

They will be updated in trader, we just don't like to do major updates just before key sports events.

Perhaps one of their exponents will be kind enough to tell others how they should be used. There have been quite a few requests on this thread.

smoothoperator
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:08 am

Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:01 pm

Hi all, just to reiterate TraderEric's point, yes even if the matchsticks don't form the basis for a trade (which it doesn't for me very often) the fact they are there and "used to them being there" during trading, being without them basically makes BA feel very alien and unusable at times, hence why I am SO grateful to PW for listening to this thread and acting so quickly to get them included. I know quite a few people converting back to BA now just like I have, and I have no doubts I will never need to even consider other software again, top man Peter :)

As for how I use them, I did explain in my first few posts where I asked for these matchsticks. I don't have a method, certainly not a holy grail for how to make money out of matchsticks alone. I just have what I have managed to work out myself while considering going on a BA Academy course to learn how to trade "properly" :D

In a nutshell, I sit and watch live racing looking for reasons to trade. I scan betting sites, news, form data, patternform, racing post etc, then I listen intently to commentary. During the last 10-15 minutes pre off, I will be watching those matchsticks like a hawk, with one ear taking in commentary and occasionally glancing at the pics of the paddock etc.

I am basically looking for an easy opportunity. This could be a horse sweating heavily, a jockey having trouble with a horse, some bad comments from the talking heads etc etc. I can't list all the possibles, basically just anything which I think will make a punter suddenly back a horse, or wish he hadn't backed it!

Example: A horse is sweating heavily, if I am lucky I will spot it before the commentators talk about it. In which case I have laid that horse. Before I lay I will be looking at the matchsticks though. if they are stable, knocking along at 2 solid prices forming not only a nice green 2 tick range on the traded Vol bars, but the matchsticks (which I use more as my visual guide) are solid horizontal bounces. I will place my lay order just above that range so it has to move outside of that horizontal racking before i go in. Then i watch while my lay is in. The commentator might mention the sweat and i will stick another lay bet or two in. All the while it should be drifting strongly. During this trading time, I am focussed strongly on the LTP matchstick charts of my horse, and the next 3-4 competing ladders. I would want to see the others getting backed to balance the book and confirm the punters are going more into those in favour of the fave/sweating horse. IF this doesn't look the case, which i find easiest to spot via the matchsticks, I will come out sooner. Likewise, after my drift finishes, it can whipsaw back very quickly. But the matchsticks give a good few seconds of warning usually, which always saves me handing back half my trade green, sometimes all of it. The bars will be rising like a ski slope, but when the market has had enough of the drift, it will steady off for at least a few bars, before coming back in. That is the point I will exit my trade, and often get into backing it back down, IF the matchstick charts on the other runners show they are being laid back up.

That probably makes no sense, but its the best way I can explain how I use them, but only one example.

In short, the matchsticks for me are a way to judge VERY VERY QUICKLY what each horse is doing, coming in or going out. So if I open a market and instantly see 3 downward steamers (fave, 2nd fave and 4th fave) and the 3rd fave is drifting upwards, I will get on a lay of the 3rd fave and the chart is my way of managing that trade for however many seconds or minutes it might last. Often the 3 steamers will flatten off or turn around a few seconds BEFORE the 3rd fave turns back down and ends its drift. In which case, again, I have what I feel is advance warning. Without the charts, I just can't see that advance warning. I am 99.9% certain that PW will get all this advance notice and information from other charts, or sources. But for someone like me without tons of screens, practice accounts, etc etc, I find matchsticks the simplest and easiest way to get a quick look for a trade, and a quick look to get out of one too.

Just over the time since these charts were put into BA, it has saved me countless ticks of handing back profit, and some losing trades too.

P.S. I should also mention, I have one side screen and on that I have the Market Overview line chart fullscreen showing all the runners and how they interact. In the case of my 3 runners steaming example above, the MO will give further credence to the idea that those 3 will influence the other one I decide to trade, as the graph will show how well those runners are interacting.

That's about the best I can do for an explanation. Sorry if it's lacking, which I am sure it is! I am NOT a pro trader, I am a learning trader who has been trying to be a pro trader for many years! I do trade full time, but until it's paying my rent and food bills, I don't consider myself a pro. Take this information with caution, I am only sharing due to being asked!

If you want to learn to trade properly, I would say go to a PW workshop! That's what I hope to do, to further fine tune what I am doing and find some new nuggets to add to my tool kit. :)

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to75ne
Posts: 1850
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:15 pm

so in essence it seems the sticks contain no "intrinsic/built in" information, and little predictive value? or have i not understood correctly?

smoothoperator
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:08 am

Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:23 pm

I am inclined to say no to that, but over time if you stare at them while watching movements and listening to pre race commentary, I feel they do start to have some intrinsic value yes, very little though, but enough for me :)

trader-eric
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:49 pm

Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:46 am

I trade in Australia where the liquidity is very low compared to the UK and on a Monday for example, due to volatility, a graph may not mean a lot and a graphical representation of LTP via the candlesticks can mean/show a lot more of what is happening NOW, particularly given not much happens until around 2-3 minutes to go over here. I find it has some predictive value combined with the volume traded% bar being close by, it helps me to avoid trading mid price range being a guess to which way the price may go and the best example I can give as far as my style of trading is concerned is the sticks might be fluctuating between say $2.10 and $2.44 and the volume traded % roughly the same and I will note a few sticks around $2.04, assume $2 as a key resistance point, note the 2nd fav is just starting to firm via a few candlesticks and fire in a lay bet on the fav hoping I am around the bottom of the price range. I know this is only basic trading but that what the markets are like over here a lot of the time, with only 30-60k per race matched through the week its like playing Space Invaders and the candlesticks help me make quick decisions. If I was trading the UK I would probably swear by the graphs for patterns too with millions in the pools like Ascot this week so its really just an option that some may use, it helps Betangel appeal globally in my opinion by having as many user friendly options as possible which has won my business from the competition due to this and most importantly having a TAKE SP option because you definately don't want to be caught IN PLAY in Australia trying to exit with the liquidity even worse there :o

herbie
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 8:56 pm

Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:12 pm

I find they remind me where the last move started from becoming a visual nudge regarding the short term range flow.

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Euler
Posts: 16106
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:04 pm

I've always traded off volume as it's more important how much has been traded rather than where something has traded. Price without volume is like a burger without fries.

RentonT
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 12:26 am

Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:24 pm

like a table with no chairs

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