Guardian Automation - Greening Suggestion

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PeterLe
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

This initial posting in the suggestion thread was intended to be related to guardian automation, Ie the ability to green using reverse odds using a rule...
I was thinking though; what about if we had a new tab in the general settings area whereby you could specify "using reverse odds" as the default behaviour by way of a simple tick box and that would be used in both the one click screen as well as the ladder?
If we could also specify, reverse odds minus/plus one tick , even better
Thanks
Regards
Peter
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Crazyskier
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PeterLe wrote:This initial posting in the suggestion thread was intended to be related to guardian automation, Ie the ability to green using reverse odds using a rule...
I was thinking though; what about if we had a new tab in the general settings area whereby you could specify "using reverse odds" as the default behaviour by way of a simple tick box and that would be used in both the one click screen as well as the ladder?
If we could also specify, reverse odds minus/plus one tick , even better
Thanks
Regards
Peter
I can confirm that other (mostly inferior to BA) products I've tested have an option to green up using:

A) Best odds (essentially reverse odds)
B) Available odds

Of course the risk of not being matched is there, but if used wisely, with enough time before event suspension, the gains of those that do get matched, can indeed outweigh the cost of unmatched bets.

I'm a little surprised that BA haven't implemented this yet as in almost all other areas of functionality they're ahead of the competition in my view.
DavDvo
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:55 pm

Me too, as I don't see any major problem with implementing such a simple feature. Greening function will stay more less intact just input odds will be different... Bad luck I did not find it in new beta 1.43.0
InTrodusT
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Thank you
PeterLe
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

PeterLe wrote:BA Team,
Its been requested before, but would it be possible to have a rule that alows greening up but using reverse odds? ....
BA Team,
I just wanted to bump this thread for consideration please in the next beta
I really think it would make a great product even better and I wouldnt think that it would be that difficult to achieve either
regards
Peter
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jimibt
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PeterLe wrote:
PeterLe wrote:BA Team,
Its been requested before, but would it be possible to have a rule that alows greening up but using reverse odds? ....
BA Team,
I just wanted to bump this thread for consideration please in the next beta
I really think it would make a great product even better and I wouldnt think that it would be that difficult to achieve either
regards
Peter
I may be well off, but is that what i'm alluding to here in my misguided quandary??

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=12414
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Dallas
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jimibt wrote:I may be well off, but is that what i'm alluding to here in my misguided quandary??

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=12414
It means rather than take the current odds to green up at instead offer your green up at what ever the current reverse odds are.
Although you have a slightly less chance of a match and may have to chase sometimes, in running if there is gaps between the back and lay prices it can mean a big difference in the value of each succesful green up.

I use it all the time when manually trading
PeterLe
Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

Dallas is correct
Jimibt, ive just typed out a long reply to your answer with screen shots from a race today, but Ive decided not to post it as it gives away too much of what im trying to do in the explanation.
I greened up on this particular race for just over three figures using guardian.
What I can tell you is that if we could green at reverse odds, Ive calculated that I would have squeezed out an extra £626.11 if it had been matched.
There were at least three races like this today
Regards
Peter
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jimibt
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Dallas and Peter,

Thanks for the explanation and suggestion for the reverse green up. I have to say, I am both unfamiliar with this strategy and in truth, not entirely sure how I'd use this inside guardian. Do either of you have a simple *idiots guide* to making that happen in guardian (i wouldn't be able to babysit the process manually, tho if it were the only way, then for some of the edge cases that I know may exist, could try that too as I'm around all day anyway)

thanks again
jim
PeterLe
Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

jimibt wrote:Dallas and Peter,

Thanks for the explanation and suggestion for the reverse green up. I have to say, I am both unfamiliar with this strategy and in truth, not entirely sure how I'd use this inside guardian. Do either of you have a simple *idiots guide* to making that happen in guardian (i wouldn't be able to babysit the process manually, tho if it were the only way, then for some of the edge cases that I know may exist, could try that too as I'm around all day anyway)

thanks again
jim
jimibt
At the moment you cant use Guardian (hence this thread :D ). There maybe another way by using the back/Lay options, but if i remember correctly you cant use net stakes either?
You can always use excel, but I find that excel isnt fast enough these days (its ok for the majority of things but not where you are looking at implementing strategies that depend on milliseconds response)
Regards
Peter
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jimibt
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PeterLe wrote: jimibt
At the moment you cant use Guardian (hence this thread :D ). There maybe another way by using the back/Lay options, but if i remember correctly you cant use net stakes either?
You can always use excel, but I find that excel isnt fast enough these days (its ok for the majority of things but not where you are looking at implementing strategies that depend on milliseconds response)
Regards
Peter
Peter - I hope this finds its way onto the task backlog at BAHQ as it's an increadibly useful approach to what sounds like an age old problem.

I'm sure if you PM'd me those screenshots and explanations, I'd get a much better feel for what you were referring to. ;)
weemac
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

I too often wonder why this isn't already a feature; it's frustrating having to give away 'spread value' every time you want to green/red. A 'Use reverse odds to close/green' option would certainly add value. Pre-race, I would also use 'Take SP' to cover the possibility of not getting matched.

On a related note I feel we should have the option to offset using percentage price movement as well as tick movement, which I'll put on a new suggestion thread.
DavDvo
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:55 pm

I have a feeling that there is intentional resistance to implement this. Years ago there was the same request sent to another BF trading sw developer and it was also refused saying it is not needed and actually quite stupid idea. Here in this forum nobody from developers posted any response to that and the request is running already years in few threads. So what is behind? Personally I tend to believe that developers and related traders have this feature ready, but just for themselves. It makes a sense. Stop losses and greening used at available odds forces the price to move further in given direction and that is the place, where pro-traders are making decent profit. Often they invest a lot of money to initiate sudden price change just to trigger stop losses of other traders so that the price will continue moving in the direction and here we are. If stop loses and green/red is initiated at reverse odds at massive scale than swing trades are gone.
Yes it is controversial idea but may be the truth is not far from it...
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jimibt
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DavDvo wrote:I have a feeling that there is intentional resistance to implement this. Years ago there was the same request sent to another BF trading sw developer and it was also refused saying it is not needed and actually quite stupid idea. Here in this forum nobody from developers posted any response to that and the request is running already years in few threads. So what is behind? Personally I tend to believe that developers and related traders have this feature ready, but just for themselves. It makes a sense. Stop losses and greening used at available odds forces the price to move further in given direction and that is the place, where pro-traders are making decent profit. Often they invest a lot of money to initiate sudden price change just to trigger stop losses of other traders so that the price will continue moving in the direction and here we are. If stop loses and green/red is initiated at reverse odds at massive scale than swing trades are gone.
Yes it is controversial idea but may be the truth is not far from it...
I don't think the idea is far fetched in any way. I also feel that a similar resistance may be in place regards implementing a market replay feature (i.e viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11983) as the ability to fine tune rules *offline* would dramatically alter the playing field once a bunch of savvy (but narrowly failing) users were able to hone their rules to the nth degree....

Also controversial... but!!
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jimibt
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Peter(Le),

You can't imagine how much you helped me today by alluding to but not revealing a strategy. You paused me to ponder hard and the epiphany arrived!!. I have literally doubled my average P&L today by placing in 1/5 of the races that I normally would (the session gains are 100% via increased profit, rather than mitigated losses). Below, a typical example of what you unwittingly educated me into (i give you no thanks for making my life far simpler, i [used to] LOVE tension).

:) (i hope this scans as intended - it's a gentle rib/appreciation, as per how one would after a few beers with a good friend :roll: )

The two below were a combination of pre-race staking and IR green out...
typical example.png
typical example 2.png
Call it a coded message or karma, but I *got it* and it worked in my context - you should talk with Derren Brown :D

Anyway, thanks for the brevity... (now, was it Bob Hope that sang that?? :))

[edit] - btw, Gabster *won* (tho obvs Enchanted Moment would have been a sweet Brucie moment).. one more thing, I had to step outside Queensbury (rules) to achieve this, so work to be done in order to systemise the epiphany (and actually, am wondering if such a strategy can be systemised anyway, as this was literally all gut feel and very dynamic in makeup [i'm 100% certain you know what i'm thinking here!]) ... :shock:
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