BAMI - Bet Angel Market Import

Help improve Bet Angel.

Would you like to see BAMI incorporated into BA??

Yes, yes, yes. I've always wanted this included in BA
51
84%
No, I trade manually and can't see any benefit for me
7
11%
Not sure - but that's just me -always on the fence!!
3
5%
 
Total votes: 61
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jimibt
Posts: 3641
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Location: Narnia

in view of the recent spate of account restrictions, due to (potentially) excessive use of practice mode, I think the time has come to seriously review the approach suggested here. Not only would it prevent account restriction, it would bring additional revenue to BA whilst satisfying demand.
welshboy06
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:06 pm

It would be good of we had an easy to use piece of software that can import the market streaming data BF offer. I know it's an expensive option but it will allow robust back testing for the average user.

This can be done using LinusP's Betfair lightweight API but not everyone on this forum is comfortable with Python or even programming at all
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Barnobee
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:06 pm

I have just voted, this would be a brilliant feature for many reasons.

Rich
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BetScalper
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm

Vote YES from me.
Korattt
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:46 pm

yes from me because if possible I could test some automation without wasting an afternoon trying it when I could be trading, not all of us have the capacity to do both at the same time, testing & trading
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

No doubting it'd be a useful addition to the software but I'd be very surprised if it would be worth the effort for BA.

32 yes's over 2 years and probably most of those would drop out when faced with Betfair's current charges of £200 per month per sport for worthwhile data before you even consider BA's charges to recover the cost and ongoing cost of development.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I'm not saying we wouldn't entertain it, but I think there are better solutions. But also, you could spend ages backtesting something only to find it never works when in live mode. That's my experience, there is no better tutor than the market itself.
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pdenoeud
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:37 am

I am VERY interested by such feature, and I am ready to pay extra money for it. It could be offered as an extra plugin. People ineterested would pay for it.
To me, the key features are:
- possibility to play back a guardian on many events in the past
- possibility for the guardian to access current score in back testing mode
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jimibt
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

funny to see this thread re-appearing every now and again. it does however seriuosly make me wonder how a certain piece of software, out there right now, is able to offer this functionality and at the same time, generate an income from it. we've heard many times that the licencing would make this feature restictive to implement. my question; how does this *other* software offering manage to make this feature available as i'm assuming it also stays inside the BF t&c's (plus it receives revenue as it is an additional extra).

i've heard the pros and cons about market participation etc changing the outcomes. however, for some strategies, being able to apply small changes in the rule, and replay across the market(s) is surely a huge plus, rather than having to wait until the next day and making changes on the fly that are always difficult to truly impact analyse.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Current Betfair terms won't let us develop anything that accesses historic data without signing a data license agreement and that involves paying them a hefty fee upfront. The only useful data IMO, would be the pro data which would cost you £200 a month per sport, which is prohibitive to most I would think. That money would go straight to Betfair, we wouldn't get a penny in revenue for that. We are also not allowed to resell that data under the license agreement, so can't derive any additional revenue from that.

Of course, you can just pay that money to Betfair and do your own data analysis on it using tools you develop. I think that's probably a more viable option unless Betfair change terms.
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jimibt
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Location: Narnia

Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:20 pm
Current Betfair terms won't let us develop anything that accesses historic data without signing a data license agreement ....
obvioulsy not going to flash up the name of the competing software that does do this. however, given that (imho) BA must surely have the biggest subs paying base out of the main players, how do you reckon these competitors manage to do this and still remain viable??
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

There's way more to this than changing the BA data source from live to a saved stream. Creating a trading simulator whose results were meaningful would be an enormous job in proportion to the likely return. Look at the hoo-ha around PIQ...that's piece of cake compared to a sim.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

jimibt wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:37 pm
obvioulsy not going to flash up the name of the competing software that does do this. however, given that (imho) BA must surely have the biggest subs paying base out of the main players, how do you reckon these competitors manage to do this and still remain viable??
We have spoken to Betfair quite a few times about this and their position remains unchanged.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:56 pm
There's way more to this than changing the BA data source from live to a saved stream. Creating a trading simulator whose results were meaningful would be an enormous job in proportion to the likely return. Look at the hoo-ha around PIQ...that's piece of cake compared to a sim.
You already have a practice mode all you'd be doing is replacing the incoming price feed. The historic data is all timestamped and JSON format so I'd be very surprised if it's a complicated job to get that to mimic the streaming feed. Dunno if it's still available on the API but to use the delayed testbed it was a case of simply changing the endpoint, BAMI would simply be a different endpoint albeit with a addon to convert the hstoric files to API streaming format.

From a technical point of view it's really not the hardest thing in the world but financially I can't see it being viable, like I pointed out earlier in the thread. Few people will pay £200 per sport per month, BA would only generate additional revenue over subs if they sold the meetings as per the historic data vendor licence like fracsoft and the other. That's only 50p per meeting so hard to see them either making much money or even indvidual users getting much use out of a few meetings here or there so anyone serioud would want to pay the full £200pm for their own data rather than via BA.
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jimibt
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
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Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:20 pm
Current Betfair terms won't let us develop anything that accesses historic data without signing a data license agreement ....
just waking this thread up again due to a new thread on the topic: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=26695

how do things stand regards the numerous ways that BA can now be setup to save live streaming data. just wondering if there could be a way to replay saved data via this route??
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