Position in Queue and Last Trade

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LeTiss
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

wearthefoxhat wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:06 am
I've got the v1.51.1 beta version.

I'm in live mode, but I can't see any PIQ info showing. Is there a setting I have to change?

Thanks in advance.
You need to go to settings tab at the top.
Then go the ladder section
Open up the editor
Then go to the 'unmatched' section - you can tick the boxes there
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3205
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

LeTiss wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:09 am
wearthefoxhat wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:06 am
I've got the v1.51.1 beta version.

I'm in live mode, but I can't see any PIQ info showing. Is there a setting I have to change?

Thanks in advance.
You need to go to settings tab at the top.
Then go the ladder section
Open up the editor
Then go to the 'unmatched' section - you can tick the boxes there
Got it. Thanks.
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LeTiss
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

I may be forced to eat my words.

I have been trying this out on the Ryder Cup markets, and it turned out to be pretty darn accurate.

On reflection, it's quite a nice addition for manual traders - it gives a good guide, as to whether you need to bail out, or sit tight
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PDC
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

LeTiss wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:03 am
OK, this is the scenario I am clearly talking about

A) £1000 stakes wanting to get matched at odds 2.22
B) I go in behind them with another £500 - there's now £1500 waiting to be matched, and my PIQ settings shows £1000 ahead of me
C) Somebody else then follows in behind me with another £500 - there's now £2000 waiting to be matched, and my PIQ setting still shows £1000
D) Nothing has been matched, but somebody withdraws £500 from the queue

E) How does BA know where that £500 has been taken from - was it the guy at the back, or was it part of the £1000 ahead of me?

I can't see how you could possibly predict that with any accuracy
You are not able to predict that, I would guess that the person behind you is more likely to remove it than the person in front of you but that would only be a guess.

In fast moving markets like horse racing this is not much of an issue, I can see on slower markets with much larger amounts in the queue that scenario would be a bigger issue.

You just have to use it as a guide but it is much better than nothing in my opinion. On a horse market I can be trading several runners, some I switch in and out of view and some I will have placed bets at numerous positions to get queue position so having the ability to see PIQ is a huge help, for example on a position I may have placed say 3 minutes ago. Even if it is an estimate I find it worth its weight as trying to manually do the same job with multiple trades it is near impossible.
LeTiss wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:25 pm
I may be forced to eat my words.

I have been trying this out on the Ryder Cup markets, and it turned out to be pretty darn accurate.

On reflection, it's quite a nice addition for manual traders - it gives a good guide, as to whether you need to bail out, or sit tight
Let us know how you find it after a few more days and on other markets. As long as you use it as a guide and not set in stone it has its place. You can now go to the loo or put a brew on and come back and have a good idea of where you are :)
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Derek27
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Location: UK

LeTiss wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:03 am
Euler wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:13 pm
We looked at how others had implemented it and have done our best to improve that by covering all angles and then some. As previously discussed there are still issues with the way this sort of thing works. But we did it anyhow as it seemed a popular request.
OK, this is the scenario I am clearly talking about

A) £1000 stakes wanting to get matched at odds 2.22
B) I go in behind them with another £500 - there's now £1500 waiting to be matched, and my PIQ settings shows £1000 ahead of me
C) Somebody else then follows in behind me with another £500 - there's now £2000 waiting to be matched, and my PIQ setting still shows £1000
D) Nothing has been matched, but somebody withdraws £500 from the queue

E) How does BA know where that £500 has been taken from - was it the guy at the back, or was it part of the £1000 ahead of me?

I can't see how you could possibly predict that with any accuracy
You're right, software can't possibly predict that, but if it assumes the money was behind you then your PIQ would indicate the maximum amount that could be in front of you, which is still useful information.
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BetScalper
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm

I don't know exactly how there have implemented it....

But I would imagine they keep track of how much money was there before you joined the queue, the time you entered the queue and a constant variable on how much money is currently waiting to be matched.

By using those 3 variables above then it would be possible to accurately predict where you are in the queue etc.

From my testing so far on different markets it seems to be spot on.
CallumPerry
Posts: 575
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Location: Wolverhampton

Any chance this could be added in excel too please?

I am well aware of the reliability issues with it so wouldn't use it as an outright trigger but it would definitely help supply useful information regarding scaling in and out of trades to further model risk.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

BetScalper wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:59 am
I don't know exactly how there have implemented it....

But I would imagine they keep track of how much money was there before you joined the queue, the time you entered the queue and a constant variable on how much money is currently waiting to be matched.

By using those 3 variables above then it would be possible to accurately predict where you are in the queue etc.

From my testing so far on different markets it seems to be spot on.
The issue is when orders are cancelled, there's no way of knowing how much if it was in front and how much was behind you in the queue.
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gutuami
Posts: 1858
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:06 pm

LeTiss wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:03 am


E) How does BA know where that £500 has been taken from - was it the guy at the back, or was it part of the £1000 ahead of me?

I can't see how you could possibly predict that with any accuracy

If he takes his order than you're in a better position. Assuming that you still want your order matched accuracy does not matter so much. you're in a better position now. Only when bf would implement this we will have accuracy. but they are too busy with sportsbook, don't touch them.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

I don't really see the benefit or practicality of Betfair implementing a PIQ market in their API. It might have an impact on speed as well.
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3205
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

Just dropping by (again) to say a big thanks for the PIQ settings option.

It has greatly improved my decision making before I enter and whilst I'm in the market too. A can scratch trade better and more importantly let a good trade ride longer. Those 2 elements over time will improve the bottom line. (there are still red trades too)

This PW you-tube video gives a picture of how I approach the market, then, add in the PIQ... :idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW8umchN0kw
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LeTiss
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

So what's going on here?

I am the only money in the market at 7.00 on Federer, yet it suggests there's £180 ahead of me.

I've noticed a few glitches like that - it's a nice little guide, but the accuracy shouldn't be relied upon
Capture1.JPG
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Jukebox
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:07 pm

Is it just me? That £180 just looks like matched volume and I can't see a PIQ in pic.

Edit: I can see it now
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PDC
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

LeTiss wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:42 pm
So what's going on here?

I am the only money in the market at 7.00 on Federer, yet it suggests there's £180 ahead of me.

I've noticed a few glitches like that - it's a nice little guide, but the accuracy shouldn't be relied upon

Capture1.JPG
That 'bug' should be fairly easy to fix. It needs to just check your stake against how much is in the queue and never display a figure larger than the total in the queue less your stake. I am surprised it doesn't do this already.
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

My interpretation of that is if you are using streaming no new price data has been pushed to you so it couldn't interpret the data accurately. Most temporary illiquid markets are probably not getting updated enough to get an accurate estimate. I'd be surprised to see this on a busy market.
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