The facts are she travelled half way around the world and won!
The negativity surrounding her win is disappointing.
Champions in all sports have off days and there is no doubt that was not her best.
Frankel is the best straight track miler in the UK!
Black Caviar
I thought Nolen's ride was poorly judged. I would not be surprised that if that had happened in Autralia the stewards would have at least reprimanded him for not riding his mount out to the line - and possibly fined him! I know that Andy Fuller has lived in Australia and I would value his opinion of what we saw in the Diamond Jubilee.
I don't know whether you have a similar rule in the UK.
Perhaps Mugsgame has spent time in Australia as well, as I assume his observations on the quality of Asutralian racing is based on empirical evidence.
Nolen stated in the post race interview that he had had a "brain fade" and it certailny appeared to be at least that! It's a pity that the controversy over his ride has coloured the mare's performance.
Galilee66
I don't know whether you have a similar rule in the UK.
Perhaps Mugsgame has spent time in Australia as well, as I assume his observations on the quality of Asutralian racing is based on empirical evidence.
Nolen stated in the post race interview that he had had a "brain fade" and it certailny appeared to be at least that! It's a pity that the controversy over his ride has coloured the mare's performance.
Galilee66
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2046
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Galilee66
We have rules in the UK whereby a jockey would be punished for failing to obtain the best finishing position for the horse. However, they would not be brought to bear unless the jockey lost a winning or place position as a result of dropping their hands a la Nolen yesterday.
HTH
JG
We have rules in the UK whereby a jockey would be punished for failing to obtain the best finishing position for the horse. However, they would not be brought to bear unless the jockey lost a winning or place position as a result of dropping their hands a la Nolen yesterday.
HTH
JG
There's no doubt that Black Caviar had the race in the bag with something to spare but Nolen misread it and only just got out of jail. According to him he misjudged how quickly the horse would pull up on the heavy track. Personally, I think because he was on barrier 15 he just didn't expect anyone to be coming up outside him, and he got the fright of his life in final 50. Luckily he'd just done enough.
I think if Nolen would have kept the afterburners on, Black Caviar would have won by a couple of lengths at least and everyone would be purring over how easily she did it over a quality field. As it was, his mistake means people suddenly doubt her.
I just wish we got to see just what Black Caviar was capable of, like Frankel whose race, for me, bore all the hallmarks of Shergar in the Derby 30 odd years ago. They've always been determined to do 'just enough' with Black Caviar, so we've seen a procession of 2-3 length, cantering wins. I'd really love to have seen them just let her go. Yesterday was the perfect opportunity. Then again, what do I know? I'm speaking purely as a fan.
The sadness, for me, is that she's a 6 year old now, so it's unlikely she's going to improve, and there won't be another Ascot, so all people are going to remember is just how close Nolen came to blowing an entire legacy.
Still, I'm extraordinarily proud of her and I still say she's as good as anything we've ever seen. And her record backs it up.
Just imagine if Frankel and Black Caviar both retire, how much for their offspring?
I think if Nolen would have kept the afterburners on, Black Caviar would have won by a couple of lengths at least and everyone would be purring over how easily she did it over a quality field. As it was, his mistake means people suddenly doubt her.
I just wish we got to see just what Black Caviar was capable of, like Frankel whose race, for me, bore all the hallmarks of Shergar in the Derby 30 odd years ago. They've always been determined to do 'just enough' with Black Caviar, so we've seen a procession of 2-3 length, cantering wins. I'd really love to have seen them just let her go. Yesterday was the perfect opportunity. Then again, what do I know? I'm speaking purely as a fan.
The sadness, for me, is that she's a 6 year old now, so it's unlikely she's going to improve, and there won't be another Ascot, so all people are going to remember is just how close Nolen came to blowing an entire legacy.
Still, I'm extraordinarily proud of her and I still say she's as good as anything we've ever seen. And her record backs it up.
Just imagine if Frankel and Black Caviar both retire, how much for their offspring?
My brother lives in Melbourne, been there many times & for the record I think Aus is a fantastic country. I like to have a bit of banter with the Aussies as they are usually like the craicGalilee66 wrote:I thought Nolen's ride was poorly judged. I would not be surprised that if that had happened in Autralia the stewards would have at least reprimanded him for not riding his mount out to the line - and possibly fined him! I know that Andy Fuller has lived in Australia and I would value his opinion of what we saw in the Diamond Jubilee.
I don't know whether you have a similar rule in the UK.
Perhaps Mugsgame has spent time in Australia as well, as I assume his observations on the quality of Asutralian racing is based on empirical evidence.
Nolen stated in the post race interview that he had had a "brain fade" and it certailny appeared to be at least that! It's a pity that the controversy over his ride has coloured the mare's performance.
Galilee66
My observations of Australian racing are based on the fact that the Aussies think it's better than it is. Which is backed up by how many of the top Australian horses are not capable of winning the worlds top races. i.e Breeders Cup & proper G1's in Europe.
The top Aussie middle distance horse of recent times is.......
So You Think. How was sired by........Galileo. Point made.
Not being at all negative about BC, a definite super star, was great to see the Aussies win something in the UK. I bet you can't remember the last time you had the Ashes.
I feel a bit for Moody and Nolen. For both the overwhelming emotion was relief.
They had the weight of a nation on them and the worry of an unblemished record.
Perhaps it would have been better to have had a 2nd along the way.
Horse racing will only improve if it can get more international. If more good international horses come to Australia for the spring carnival - great. If more Australian horses head offshore also good.
I guess it would take Australia to produce Northern Dancer to get mugs off it's back. Let's hope BC goes on to be a super dam.
They had the weight of a nation on them and the worry of an unblemished record.
Perhaps it would have been better to have had a 2nd along the way.
Horse racing will only improve if it can get more international. If more good international horses come to Australia for the spring carnival - great. If more Australian horses head offshore also good.
I guess it would take Australia to produce Northern Dancer to get mugs off it's back. Let's hope BC goes on to be a super dam.
It is and always has been about money.
Have a look at stud fews world wide and it's plain to see where the money is.........Japan
I know I have been having a bit of fun with you Aussies, but in seriousness I like Aussie racing. It's competitive and fair.
I watch with the sound off because I can't stand to hear the pompous, biased pundits on Sky racing. I love the stewards room footage. It is brilliant.
The thing that makes races great. The Derby, The St Ledger, The Arc, The Ascot Gold Cup etc is history. The great horses of yesteryears that are racing legends that have gone before. It takes decades if not centuries to create this, not prize money. Take the Derby as an example. If you look at the past winners and even placed horses it reads like a roll of honour of the great sires of the throughbred breed.
Have a look at stud fews world wide and it's plain to see where the money is.........Japan
I know I have been having a bit of fun with you Aussies, but in seriousness I like Aussie racing. It's competitive and fair.
I watch with the sound off because I can't stand to hear the pompous, biased pundits on Sky racing. I love the stewards room footage. It is brilliant.
The thing that makes races great. The Derby, The St Ledger, The Arc, The Ascot Gold Cup etc is history. The great horses of yesteryears that are racing legends that have gone before. It takes decades if not centuries to create this, not prize money. Take the Derby as an example. If you look at the past winners and even placed horses it reads like a roll of honour of the great sires of the throughbred breed.
Yes it is mugs, we may not produce the greatest horses in the world but as a product I think our racing is great.
It's going to be interesting to see how the product is delivered when the new media deal with TVN comes in to play.
A final word on Black Caviar http://jamesaknight.wordpress.com/2012/ ... ck-caviar/
It's going to be interesting to see how the product is delivered when the new media deal with TVN comes in to play.
A final word on Black Caviar http://jamesaknight.wordpress.com/2012/ ... ck-caviar/
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rubysglory
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:02 am
Bit of banter, bit of music and a pint or six. That just about sums most of us - Onya Mugs !mugsgame wrote:I like to have a bit of banter with the Aussies as they are usually like the craic
rg
I follow Oz racing through Sky sports racing radio (which BTW is the most amazing racing coverage on radio and which lack in the UK) and don't watch through TV but I get the feeling that the whole Australia and not just commentators are in awe of this creature. I must say Black Cavier is the best racing horse, but hey what do I know about racing.
Hi, we hear a lot about Black Caviar in dear old Oz, anything female we seem to hear a lot about. I wasn't aware till last week that Black Caviar is the greatest racehorse that has ever lived. Apparently that puts her ahead of Secretariat and Man o War even though they ran about two seconds per furlong faster than she can. But thats beside point she is female so she must be superior.
Always hard to compare eras and horses that run different distances!!!
Secretariat ran (a still standing race record) in the 1973 Belmont Stakes. The fastest furlong in that race was run by Secretariat at 11.40 seconds.
In the 2012 Lightening Stakes (same race as today but last year), the fastest furlong run was Black Caviar at 9.98 seconds.
Black Caviar did not have to run 12 furlongs to win like Secretariat in the Belmont Stakes.
So the comparison is meaningless.
Secretariat was a great horse. Black Caviar is a great horse. Frankel is a great horse. If they don't race each other, you can't tell who is the best.
Secretariat ran (a still standing race record) in the 1973 Belmont Stakes. The fastest furlong in that race was run by Secretariat at 11.40 seconds.
In the 2012 Lightening Stakes (same race as today but last year), the fastest furlong run was Black Caviar at 9.98 seconds.
Black Caviar did not have to run 12 furlongs to win like Secretariat in the Belmont Stakes.
So the comparison is meaningless.
Secretariat was a great horse. Black Caviar is a great horse. Frankel is a great horse. If they don't race each other, you can't tell who is the best.