I have used Bitcoin to pay for 3 seperate internet transactions in the last week.
I used an app called Blockchain, which is on my iphone.
I scan a VR code, supplied by the person i want to pay, put in the amount, (was about $50, each time), was told there would be a +/- $2 fee, and I press enter.
I get a ping sound, 3 secs later, and transaction is complete.
Hard to fault, ease of use. ok, buying the initial Bitcoin, costs 5% or whatever, and the service fee is something, but, it was v painless.
BITCOIN as an alternative to regular currency
megarain,
Bitcoin completely fails all reasonable criteria for a currency.
It makes no sense to use Bitcoin to pay for something if the value of Bitcoin is going to double every few months or whatever (If $10 of Bitcoin is worth $20 in a few months time then you want to hold on to it, not spend it!).
The transaction volumes that Blockchain can handle are far too low to be usable on a large-scale, and transaction times are far too slow.
The transaction fees are now far too high.
There might be some base-level below which Bitcoin won't fall (the cost of 'mining' a coin perhaps - $US 1 000 for whatever), but I think it's highly likely it's going to crash hugely at some point.
Crypto-currency technology might be the future of money, but I really doubt that's going to be Bitcoin for the reasons I've given above. There are now many rivals , and chances are , one or two of these is going to displace Bitcoin.
Note my earlier posts in this thread were dead right. I picked the Bitcoin low of $200 and I strongly urged everyone to pile in with $10 000. Had you taken my advice, you'd now be a millionaire (although, unfortunately for me, I didn't have the balls to follow my own advice, and so I missed out).
I've picked Ethereum as being hugely superior to Bitcoin, and if anyone wants to gamble, I'm confidently asserting that Ethereum is the horse is to be on! Perhaps wait for the right time to get in. I'm picking a big Bitcoin crash sometime in the 6 months. Once the big short comes, all the other crypto-currencies are likely to fall as well, so you'll be able to get them on the cheap.
I'm advising all Betangel readers to pile into Ethereum right there! Don't hesitate! This time I'm backing myself!
Bitcoin completely fails all reasonable criteria for a currency.
It makes no sense to use Bitcoin to pay for something if the value of Bitcoin is going to double every few months or whatever (If $10 of Bitcoin is worth $20 in a few months time then you want to hold on to it, not spend it!).
The transaction volumes that Blockchain can handle are far too low to be usable on a large-scale, and transaction times are far too slow.
The transaction fees are now far too high.
There might be some base-level below which Bitcoin won't fall (the cost of 'mining' a coin perhaps - $US 1 000 for whatever), but I think it's highly likely it's going to crash hugely at some point.
Crypto-currency technology might be the future of money, but I really doubt that's going to be Bitcoin for the reasons I've given above. There are now many rivals , and chances are , one or two of these is going to displace Bitcoin.
Note my earlier posts in this thread were dead right. I picked the Bitcoin low of $200 and I strongly urged everyone to pile in with $10 000. Had you taken my advice, you'd now be a millionaire (although, unfortunately for me, I didn't have the balls to follow my own advice, and so I missed out).
I've picked Ethereum as being hugely superior to Bitcoin, and if anyone wants to gamble, I'm confidently asserting that Ethereum is the horse is to be on! Perhaps wait for the right time to get in. I'm picking a big Bitcoin crash sometime in the 6 months. Once the big short comes, all the other crypto-currencies are likely to fall as well, so you'll be able to get them on the cheap.
I'm advising all Betangel readers to pile into Ethereum right there! Don't hesitate! This time I'm backing myself!
Hi,
You make some fair points.
For small transactions, its just inconvenient if the price of BTC moves 5% in a day, but, if u had to pay someone a substantial amount,
someone would end up feeling they lost out.
Have you any thoughts about Iota ?
Bill Perkins, (poker player/oil day trader/philanthrapist) recently tweeted this was his favoured exposure to crypto, thou he admitted his had about 85 BTC.
Thx
You make some fair points.
For small transactions, its just inconvenient if the price of BTC moves 5% in a day, but, if u had to pay someone a substantial amount,
someone would end up feeling they lost out.
Have you any thoughts about Iota ?
Bill Perkins, (poker player/oil day trader/philanthrapist) recently tweeted this was his favoured exposure to crypto, thou he admitted his had about 85 BTC.
Thx
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marksmeets302
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm
Megarain, I'm not an active user of bitcoin anymore so I have to rely on articles like the one a posted. $2 is a lot more reasonable than $20-25. Three seconds is nice. I remember in 2014 there was a wild variation in times it took to complete a transaction. It could be 10 seconds, it could be 10 minutes. Largest I ever had was about half an hour. Aside from the withdrawal from mtgox which so far has taken almost 4 yearsmegarain wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:23 pmI have used Bitcoin to pay for 3 seperate internet transactions in the last week.
I used an app called Blockchain, which is on my iphone.
I scan a VR code, supplied by the person i want to pay, put in the amount, (was about $50, each time), was told there would be a +/- $2 fee, and I press enter.
I get a ping sound, 3 secs later, and transaction is complete.
Hard to fault, ease of use. ok, buying the initial Bitcoin, costs 5% or whatever, and the service fee is something, but, it was v painless.
Are the completion times stable at 3 seconds in your opinion?Speaking of mtgox, the claim group I've joined is getting a lot of media attention these days https://www.ft.com/content/e741e792-df1 ... 1e63a52f9c. With an incentive to divide 2 billion there's a lot of pushing and pulling going on. The focus is on getting mtgox out of bankruptcy, in an orderly fashion. The creditors are pulling (we want our bitcoins!! Before they go to zero!) and the trustee is pushing back (you can't have it! there are still unsettled lawsuits!)
I have no real skin in the game, but, as a user, I am impressed.
If the person u are sending to, doesnt have a VR image, u are forced to copy/paste their Bitcoin address, or heaven forbid, key it in, manually, but, each transaction I did, was flawless.
I bought the Bitcoin thru the app. Am only allowed to buy £800 per day. For a purchase of £200 BTC, the fee is £6.The rate is guaranteed for 14 mins.
The app supports BTC or Ether. I think the 3rd party I am buying from, is Coinbase.
If the person u are sending to, doesnt have a VR image, u are forced to copy/paste their Bitcoin address, or heaven forbid, key it in, manually, but, each transaction I did, was flawless.
I bought the Bitcoin thru the app. Am only allowed to buy £800 per day. For a purchase of £200 BTC, the fee is £6.The rate is guaranteed for 14 mins.
The app supports BTC or Ether. I think the 3rd party I am buying from, is Coinbase.
The Force Behind Bitcoin’s Meteoric Rise: Millions of Asian Investors
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-force- ... 1513074750
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-force- ... 1513074750
Can anyone think of a good reason that will actually spark a crash in Bitcoin though? It seems as though it's been through pretty much all the hurdles already from crime scandals, exchanges being hacked, regulatory interventions. What major event will actually do enough to spark a crash? Nobody wins if Bitcoin crashes (except I guess people speculating on the fall through futures now, you'd be crazy to though) so if the small percentage of people who own the majority of coins don't sell in panic bulk then there might not ever be enough down pressure. Surely the people with the coins know that they can't get out if there's a crash, but they themselves are the ones who would be the main fuel in any crash. So if they're rational, then they would know that their only choice is to just hold on to the coins and that increases the chance there won't ever be a crash.
There are certainly issues with Bitcoin as a practical currency, so it's more akin to something like gold which is more used as a store of wealth. To physically own gold at spot price is either just as hard (or harder) process than owning Bitcoin, or alternatively you pay a massive mark up in a similar way to paying Bitcoin fees. Try and buy $50 of gold without paying a massive % in commission. Also, you'd never actually pay someone in gold for something - you'd convert it to local cash first. The advantage of gold is that it does at least have some physical value due to it's use as a metal and attractive colour, but even then how do you value it intrinsically? Its price is ultimately governed just by market perception/supply and demand. Could people eventually see Bitcoin as a safe haven asset?
Everyone seems to think a crash in Bitcoin price is guaranteed. At the moment I can't agree for sure that's the case. Perhaps a crash to near 0 is more likely than it maintaining around $15,000 and higher for decades, but for me I see the chances as being somewhere in the middle.
How to take advantage in such uncertainty? I reckon put a small amount of money into BTC (offset it with futures if you want, but then that makes it quite a more substantial lock up and risk of capital), then do things like arbing or trading to build/compound BTC. Surely now is the golden time to take advantage of the emerging markets where there's going to be easy pickings - think early days of Betfair! BTC might crash, but then all you've lost is time and a bit of capital. Potential upside is that it might stay around at a reasonable price. For me the hardest part is weighing up the time investment vs other things I could be doing with it.
There are certainly issues with Bitcoin as a practical currency, so it's more akin to something like gold which is more used as a store of wealth. To physically own gold at spot price is either just as hard (or harder) process than owning Bitcoin, or alternatively you pay a massive mark up in a similar way to paying Bitcoin fees. Try and buy $50 of gold without paying a massive % in commission. Also, you'd never actually pay someone in gold for something - you'd convert it to local cash first. The advantage of gold is that it does at least have some physical value due to it's use as a metal and attractive colour, but even then how do you value it intrinsically? Its price is ultimately governed just by market perception/supply and demand. Could people eventually see Bitcoin as a safe haven asset?
Everyone seems to think a crash in Bitcoin price is guaranteed. At the moment I can't agree for sure that's the case. Perhaps a crash to near 0 is more likely than it maintaining around $15,000 and higher for decades, but for me I see the chances as being somewhere in the middle.
How to take advantage in such uncertainty? I reckon put a small amount of money into BTC (offset it with futures if you want, but then that makes it quite a more substantial lock up and risk of capital), then do things like arbing or trading to build/compound BTC. Surely now is the golden time to take advantage of the emerging markets where there's going to be easy pickings - think early days of Betfair! BTC might crash, but then all you've lost is time and a bit of capital. Potential upside is that it might stay around at a reasonable price. For me the hardest part is weighing up the time investment vs other things I could be doing with it.
marksmeets302 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:21 amMegarain, I'm not an active user of bitcoin anymore so I have to rely on articles like the one a posted. $2 is a lot more reasonable than $20-25. Three seconds is nice. I remember in 2014 there was a wild variation in times it took to complete a transaction. It could be 10 seconds, it could be 10 minutes.
Now I suspect, I don't know for sure, that something like Coinbase being such an established business that it's doing some clever things in the background to effectively "buffer" your transactions. In other words you might be transacting with Coinbase as your counterparty which takes 3 seconds (at which point they've assumed risk) and then they execute the transaction with the other person behind the scenes which might then take minutes. They must have a large pool of buyers and sellers at any point in time, in effect creating a pool of liquidity and an exchange themselves. In any case, that's probably what I'd do. I'd assume a bit of risk depending on the current volatility of BTC, but in return I'd have created an app that was way faster than competitors and therefore win market share of the users which is what matters.
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ruthlessimon
- Posts: 2094
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm
Leverage.
Impossible to think logically when your playing with money you can't afford to lose. If it was me, the moment I get scared, I'm out. Imagine that times by millions.
Impossible to think logically when your playing with money you can't afford to lose. If it was me, the moment I get scared, I'm out. Imagine that times by millions.
Who is leveraged though? Surely the people who own most of the coins have acquired them when they were relatively cheap compared to now so have a massive margin before they could actually lose money they invested, or they have mined them and therefore have already paid the energy costs. I don't think many people will actually go bankrupt if BTC fell by 80%. A lot of people would just lose their existing Bitcoin wealth. Only someone who sold all their belongings to invest in Bitcoin in the last 2 years would actually be down considerably compared to before. Those are pretty few and far between though I hope.ruthlessimon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:19 pmLeverage.
Impossible to think logically when your playing with money you can't afford to lose. If it was me, the moment I get scared, I'm out. Imagine that times by millions.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94751.html
Maybe it's just a publicity stunt though.
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ruthlessimon
- Posts: 2094
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm
I think that's a big assumption to make. I've just got visions of these Asian's taking out ludicrous mortgages etc in order to continue "investing". & let's be frank, these are not sophisticated investors who understand risk management. Moreover, gambling is so ingrained in their culture
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Recent asian crashes have had a huge impact on 'ordinary' people. The number of shrewd investors is tiny compared to the number of gamblers who have jumped on a trend, that's one reason the price has got so high. These bubbles aren't new, but because it's all cool sounding and 'digital' people forget that.
Since 1925 there have been approx 30+ bubbles, ALL of which have burst. Can anyone who's keen on bitcon explain how this bubble is different to any of the others ?
Since 1925 there have been approx 30+ bubbles, ALL of which have burst. Can anyone who's keen on bitcon explain how this bubble is different to any of the others ?
