Oil - WTI / Brent Crude

Long, short, Bitcoin, forex - Plenty of alternate market disuccsion.
Post Reply
User avatar
marksmeets302
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

Anyone own an oil tanker?
As weird as it sounds, I do.

Well, not exactly. It's a cape sized freighter and I only own a part of it. If you thought oil got hit hard, take a look at the baltic dry index. It's an index that tracks the shipping rates for cape sized freighters. In 2008 it dropped 95% in a matter of months, and so far it hasn't recovered. Worse, today it's at an all time low.

As with all investments, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. To date, this has been my worst. I've had a stake in a couple of ventures that eventually went bankrupt, but at least I got some payments out of them before things got ugly. With this ship, all I ever got was a so-called construction-finished dividend that didn't even cover the travel expenses when I got there to watch it baptised. Taught me to stay away from boats :lol:
User avatar
marksmeets302
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

Oil at a 5 months high now. Brent did $69 yesterday.

Personally, I'm more worried about the interest rates. Last week I tried to get out of a couple of bonds. There were just no buyers other than the market maker. In the end I hit his bid, giving up a huge spread.
User avatar
marksmeets302
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

crude taking a plunge today. CL august contract trading at 53.50
User avatar
Archangel
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Polo Lounge, Beverly Hills Hotel

US oil fell 7.7% today . People who trade it must have nerves of steel :lol:
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24801
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

WTI touching $40, Brent $45
User avatar
Archangel
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Polo Lounge, Beverly Hills Hotel

Markets are undergoing a massive correction. DOW down 530 points today
There no place to hide now as each technical level is hit and broken through
User avatar
marksmeets302
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

There no place to hide now as each technical level is hit and broken through
I'm a fan of technical analysis, but at the same time I think the current methods are completely worthless. The efficient market hypothesis can easily be disproven; the markets are not random. With fractal analysis you can prove that there is a long term memory effect. So there must be ways to exploit this, based purely on price data alone. The momentum anomaly is such a way; trends persist for longer than you should expect if the EMH were true. But if TA is taken further, with levels, support and resistance it completely loses its value. Which is frustrating so I keep looking for new approaches :-)

I believe that different investors have different investment horizons. An investor with a net worth of 10K and fully invested in stocks is I think close to puking his guts out at the moment. An investor with a net worth of 1M and diversified into 60% stocks and 40% cash and bonds is starting to get a little bit grumpy at the moment. A high net worth individual invested in many more asset classes and might be excited to buy some more stock at lower prices. A multi billion dollar pension fund just looks at its models and might rationally decide that given the interest rate and price/earning projections it is almost a good moment to rebalance.

The first investor is selling to the high net worth investor, and will be pleased for the first couple of days that he did so. Then the pension fund decides it's the right moment and starts buying. Leaving the small investor with the idea that he got screwed again.

"When things get so bad you're about to puke, you should probably double up" (Marty Schwartz)

So look for a small investor and ask him if his carpet needs cleaning.
User avatar
Archangel
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Polo Lounge, Beverly Hills Hotel

The way things are going this morning they could. Nasdaq is down 5% so I guess they will be suspending trading at some point
This is a mini crash now , panic
I was very short but am pretty much out now. Very good few days

The problem with passive investing is that these type of days wipe out the funds profits. Fund managers who thought that all they had to do was buy Apple or Netflix shares are in big trouble
User avatar
marksmeets302
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

Well done! Was already wondering how you were doing. What I don't get is you were saying you were essentially selling premium. Shouldn't you start selling now then, instead of being out?
User avatar
Archangel
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Polo Lounge, Beverly Hills Hotel

marksmeets302 wrote:Well done! Was already wondering how you were doing. What I don't get is you were saying you were essentially selling premium. Shouldn't you start selling now then, instead of being out?
oh yes i am talking about being out of my naked short positions
This is an ideal time to be selling premium of course in a high vol environment
User avatar
Archangel
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Polo Lounge, Beverly Hills Hotel

marksmeets302 wrote:
There no place to hide now as each technical level is hit and broken through
I'm a fan of technical analysis, but at the same time I think the current methods are completely worthless. The efficient market hypothesis can easily be disproven; the markets are not random. With fractal analysis you can prove that there is a long term memory effect. So there must be ways to exploit this, based purely on price data alone. The momentum anomaly is such a way; trends persist for longer than you should expect if the EMH were true. But if TA is taken further, with levels, support and resistance it completely loses its value. Which is frustrating so I keep looking for new approaches :-)

I believe that different investors have different investment horizons. An investor with a net worth of 10K and fully invested in stocks is I think close to puking his guts out at the moment. An investor with a net worth of 1M and diversified into 60% stocks and 40% cash and bonds is starting to get a little bit grumpy at the moment. A high net worth individual invested in many more asset classes and might be excited to buy some more stock at lower prices. A multi billion dollar pension fund just looks at its models and might rationally decide that given the interest rate and price/earning projections it is almost a good moment to rebalance.

The first investor is selling to the high net worth investor, and will be pleased for the first couple of days that he did so. Then the pension fund decides it's the right moment and starts buying. Leaving the small investor with the idea that he got screwed again.

"When things get so bad you're about to puke, you should probably double up" (Marty Schwartz)

So look for a small investor and ask him if his carpet needs cleaning.
You bring up an interesting point about EMH and the behavior of different market participants. But I look at the behavior of the participants a little differently. There really aren’t many individuals with 10K who are fully invested in individual stocks on their own, at least relative to the assets of institutions. The person with 10K invested is more likely to have that in a mutual fund, pension funds etc. The institutions, then, for the most part aren’t trading their own money. They’re trading all those 10K accounts put together. The institutions don’t react to market movement as much as they buy and sell according to their 10K clients deposits or withdrawals into the funds. So I’m not sure if I would make a strong distinction between the individual investor and institution.

Another thing that I’ve seen with large (1M) accounts is the idea of utility. The relationship between account size and account risk isn’t linear. Most people don’t increase their risk 100 fold if they go from a 10K account to a 1M account. The incremental $1 that the 1M could make by increasing risk doesn’t mean as much to that person as the $1 does to the 10K account. So, after the market sells off, a 1M account may not be increasing risk equal to the risk that 100 10K accounts are shedding.

Now, there are some institutions that do trade their own money, but they can get as panicky as the 10K account. I think rather than account size, the distinction would be made by the level of market awareness and skill of the trader. Whether someone makes the jump from vol = danger to vol = opportunity isn’t tied to net liq.

That’s my .02 anyway!
User avatar
Archangel
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:03 pm
Location: Polo Lounge, Beverly Hills Hotel

Welcome rally in Crude Oil in recent days
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24801
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

The Seven Books You Must Read If You Want to Understand Oil

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... rstand-oil
User avatar
marksmeets302
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

oil entering new year-long lows... CL future trading at $38 !
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24801
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Below $38 now, amazing really, apart from nothing amazes me any more!
Post Reply

Return to “Trading Financial markets”