Trading Psychology : Admission time, and a question or two :(

Trading is often about how to take the appropriate risk without exposing yourself to very human flaws.
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stueytrader
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:19 pm

Must admit, I haven't posted on these forums for some time - most importantly due to a few terrible trading times I've been through.

I have to admit, some of the terrible times have come from my own psychology (and related behaviours trading). I've committed the cardinal sins of tilting, overtrading, inplay - an unholy trading trinity! :oops:

So, with these memories fresh in my mind I'd like to ask people about specific strategies if possible. What do you do to keep a good level for the following issues:

1/ overstaking (yep, I've slung in some far too heavy stakes (50% banks in one selection etc) at my poor times.

2/ Tilting emotionally - I know that's of course related to the above point, but maybe a wider emotional control issue.

3/ Generally keeping control at all times and never letting it slip - I think the hardest part for me is that it can only take one slip (from many months of good control) to cause significant damage. So it feels it has to be 100% control, or nothing?

I should know a lot better, been trading long enough to know these pitfalls - but there are some specifically psychological issues at work here (not trading principles per se), and would love to here how others deliberately use strategies to keep these things in check, and correct, regardless of how much the market has wound you up at times. :)

Stu.

stueytrader
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:31 pm

Maybe should add, I think I'm looking for the answer to number 1 (overtrading in terms of staking) more than any others - it's one thing that I've found easiest to break as a rule during a lengthy trading run....oh I'll just increase stake for this one as it's such a great trade...then boom of course.

I should add, I do that very occasionally - but those occasional slips are enough of a problem.

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to75ne
Posts: 1801
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:33 pm

if you still cant get control of your emotions after some considerable time, you may have to face the strong possibility that you never will.

this topic and been covered many times and by many people who have faded away.

trader44
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:59 pm

have to agree with the above ,maybe it will never be 100% all of the time i know i arent but still make a living from it ,i do still slip up on over staking if i see an opportunity i might click a few times to many but a lot of the time it is because its a spontaneous opportunity in running an i get it right most of the time .i think its how you handle these things when they happen and if you dont blow your bo**ocks off and do your bank it it can be profitable. theres probably not a day goes by when i back a horse at say 5 and get out at 3 ish only to see it kick away and go 1.3 and think i should of held on to that but that thought is soon dispelled and its onto the next race whereas in the past i would be making sure i got what i deserved in the next race .i usually ended up getting what i deserved in the form of a massive kick in the nuts and a big loss :D

stueytrader
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:22 pm

to75ne wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:33 pm
this topic and been covered many times and by many people who have faded away.
I do know the idea of control generally is a repeated area yes, though I'm more wondering what some may have used as very specific strategies/behaviours, and specifically on the staking side of the coin.

I realise going on tilt as a wider issue is something that is common in this area.

Bluesky
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:39 pm

to75ne wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:33 pm
this topic has been covered many times and by many people who have faded away.
Although this sounds a bit harsh it is never the less true. There are lots of posts and threads about this topic going back many years on this forum. Unfortunately most traders who have posted that they suffer from this do seem to drop off the radar, it would be nice to think that they manage to sort things out. I suspect however that they pack trading up as they realise they are like the vast majority of people that try it and its just not for them.

There is a really good post on this forum, I read it a while back (can't remember who posted it and I'm not 100% sure it was on this forum either) and it was taken I think from a financial trading forum. It mentions the percentage of traders that fall by the wayside as time progresses. One thing that struck me about the numbers was that even after about 3 years there were still traders who would for whatever reason lose the plot and blow up their banks in that third year even though they had overcome so many difficulties and had become winning traders.

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Dallas
Posts: 7769
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:51 pm

Bluesky wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:39 pm

There is a really good post on this forum, I read it a while back (can't remember who posted it and I'm not 100% sure it was on this forum either) and it was taken I think from a financial trading forum. It mentions the percentage of traders that fall by the wayside as time progresses. One thing that struck me about the numbers was that even after about 3 years there were still traders who would for whatever reason lose the plot and blow up their banks in that third year even though they had overcome so many difficulties and had become winning traders.
If its the one im thinking of and had a chart to illustrate the point it was posted on here by Ruthlessimon

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to75ne
Posts: 1801
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:59 pm

stueytrader wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:22 pm
to75ne wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:33 pm
this topic and been covered many times and by many people who have faded away.
I do know the idea of control generally is a repeated area yes, though I'm more wondering what some may have used as very specific strategies/behaviours, and specifically on the staking side of the coin.

I realise going on tilt as a wider issue is something that is common in this area.
i think you either can control your emotions to a certain extent and know where that extent ends for you, and that is where you need to stop (and/or take a loss) and to walk away and to be able to walk away, not just know you that should (and/or take a loss) or you cant .

dispite all the tools that ba has that can help/aid discipline such as not going inplay, trading when volumes too low, taking a loss etc, the evidence from these forums seems to be that most people fail

dispite all the advice there as been about reading books such a trading in the zone ( i have only read bits and what i have seems to not reflect pre off horse racing markets very well),and similar books, various ytube vids, positive thinking stuff and so on, the evidence seems to be most fail.

in my opinion as i said above, if after a significant amount of time a person still cant control their emotions then i doubt if they ever will, the evidence seems to suggest the vast majority will fail (and do), and it would seem to be an ability not learnable but something innate in someones makeup.
Last edited by to75ne on Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stueytrader
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:03 pm

So to summarise so far, I should just give up trading? (seriously, there's been recent times I've thought that too).

I did however post in the hope that people could actually describe how they behave with specific ways and functioning? I'm sure we've all (no matter how 'perfect' we see ourselves or claim to be) have had slips - and don't we all guard against them with approaches/behaviours etc? Things to avoid, things to do, schedules, specific indicators, timings etc?

(ps. I already know the first one: automate it all. I get that could be good, but I am still interested in those who don't automate all of their actions and function in the markets.)

stueytrader
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:09 pm

to75ne wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:59 pm
stueytrader wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:22 pm
to75ne wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:33 pm

i think you either can control your emotions to a certain extent and know where that extent ends for you, and that is where you need to stop (and/or take a loss) and to walk away and to be able to walk away, not just know you that should (and/or take a loss) .
This is a good starting point yes. I did read in another thread about people using timers that remind them to break at set points too - not a bad idea IMO.

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