Overcoming gambling addiction

Trading is often about how to take the appropriate risk without exposing yourself to very human flaws.
Post Reply
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23409
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:40 am
Image
Heres my updated chart, blue what the balance wouldve been without gambling starting from the point its possible to document and the red my actual balance, even after a few hundred quid of deposits to keep topping it up.
Before the graph it was so much of a mess that its impossible to document, manually stopping trades etc, it wasnt until a few weeks before posting that I stopped betting on the horses so the results became trackable. Any automated gains were being punted on all sorts of crap, now my balance is just doing its thing on its own without me killing it.

I'd have hit my targets well before now though but I'm over my initial frustration I felt when starting this. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
I would be a multi-millionaire if I just placed my winning trades and not my losing ones, perhaps I should produce a chart of that!!!

What's the point in posting your balance after you've deposited a few hundred quid of deposits to keep topping it up???

Your balance is completely meaningless, it's your profit/loss that's important.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23409
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:30 am
Its true, you would be a successful horse trader, just because you were losing on football it doesnt mean you should chuck it all in. If you were mental enough to be having such wildly different results from different markets and wanted help to stop the losing ones, you should definitely start a thread on here asking for advice the same as I have here.
Sorry Mark, but if I was losing more money on football than I was making on horse racing and couldn't stop myself from betting on football, I would be financially better off if I chucked it ALL in, and that's exactly what I would try to do!
marketraisen
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 am

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:49 am
This thread popped up on a Saturday afternoon and a whole host of people who trade for a living, and for whom Saturday is their biggest pay day, downed tools and came to your assistance because they really understand how devistating gambling addiction can be.
I know how devastating gambling addiction can be aswell and lived through it in my early 20s, when somebody really shouldve told me to put the brakes on.

The advice on this thread has helped me, I've thanked everyone who left a message, I've said multiple times how appreciative of everyones good intentions I am. Attempting to lay some sort of guilt on me for taking hypothetical money out of somebodies pockets as they came to post is totally uncalled for, really unfair and a bizarre leap to make. Should everyone that gets a reply on here during a Saturday afternoon apologise or something? If any of the original folk who replied during racing hours on that day want to step forward they'll have their apology but they should know I was genuinely in need of help even if it wasnt life threatening. Theres also really no need for the flippant remarks about 'easy come easy go 20s', I havent typed that once in this thread unless you can maybe cut and paste it for me? I've said multiple times the small loses add up to hundreds and then thousands, I've already said that over the years I've lost enough money to buy a house.
ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:49 am
That chart is pointless
Its not, it may be pointless to post here but then you could say that about all charts posted here, the differentiation between theoretical profits and real ones is a visual aide for me to focus, this thread for me has been therapeutic in taking steps to cure my problem and charting my own progress (I have more) is part of it. The chart is something I can pin to my wall, its something I can look at on my computer, its a reminder of what not to do. Theres sections of this board dedicated to reporting and dissecting outcomes to streamline results, its why theres a practice mode in BA, everyone is encouraged to test and gather as much data as is reasonably possible and basing future decisions from it. Thats what it is for me, its seeing what a terrible gambler I am, its stark and frustrating to see and its doing its job.

I'm not sure how we have gotten to this point but people are seeing what they want to see and are ignoring whats being typed, I get its an emotive topic and people have their entrenched responses though.

Derek said he hadnt read through the thread and I said I dont blame him, all I've done is repeat myself since, if he had read the thread he probably wouldnt have even replied to offer advice.
marketraisen
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 am

Derek27 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:01 am
I would be a multi-millionaire if I just placed my winning trades and not my losing ones, perhaps I should produce a chart of that!!!
I think you've cracked the code :o

See my last message, infact read any of them I've talked about my gambling history, when things arent working we first look to see if we can change them for the better and if we cant, then we chuck it in.

If youre losing on football but winning on racing, throwing in the towel completely would leave you better off than doing both but you'd be better off again if you just stopped wasting money on the football and concentrated on the racing. Maybe if the punter losing overall made some silly graphs showing where you'd be with and without the football betting it would help with that end?

For me, giving up the stupid sports bets and concentrating on automation is obviously what I need to do, throwing in the towel totally is a long way off, maybe itll come one day.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23409
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:27 am
Derek said he hadnt read through the thread and I said I dont blame him, all I've done is repeat myself since, if he had read the thread he probably wouldnt have even replied to offer advice.
The Today's Racing thread is over 5 years old and has over 15,000 posts. It's not necessary to read it in full to reply to a single post!

Charts can be useful, all we're saying is that particular chart you posted is meaningless.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23409
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:35 am
If youre losing on football but winning on racing, throwing in the towel completely would leave you better off than doing both but you'd be better off again if you just stopped wasting money on the football and concentrated on the racing. Maybe if the punter losing overall made some silly graphs showing where you'd be with and without the football betting it would help with that end?

For me, giving up the stupid sports bets and concentrating on automation is obviously what I need to do, throwing in the towel totally is a long way off, maybe itll come one day.
Personally, and I really mean personally, if I was unable to stop betting and losing money on football I would question whether, or perhaps conclude that, I'm not in control of my gambling and aim to stop altogether. If I can't stop gambling on football I can't see how I could have any confidence that I wouldn't do anything daft trading horse racing. If a trade goes against me and I need to bail out for a loss, if I don't even have the self-control to not place a bet on Arsenal beating Chelsea, I couldn't possibly have any confidence of acting appropriately in a difficult trading situation.

What I really don't understand is, if you're making good money at work and trading/gambling is just a leisure activity, and you can afford to lose what you do lose, why are you so concerned about it to ask for help?
marketraisen
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 am

Derek27 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:38 am
all we're saying is that particular chart you posted is meaningless.
I disagree. Though the numbers are irrelevant, charts are visual aides or else we would document everything in lists of numbers, I use it as a reminder of what not to do.

I could just as easily print off a betfair statement and pin that to my wall as a reminder of past stupid bets or trades (gamblers have a funny habit of not remembering certain things) but a more visual representation hits home.

This next chart doesnt have any gambling related info in it but its just as useful to keep in mind.
Image
marketraisen
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 am

Derek27 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:49 am
why are you so concerned about it to ask for help?
Because of what has happened in the past, wrote a bitof my gambling history earlier in the thread, basically it followed-

-12-14 years
Lost thousands betting everything, including poker, casinos, racing. Had debt and all the associated problem gambler issues
-2015-2016
Stopped being an idiot and started winning, totally changed every habit I previously had, which wasnt hard when I realised that predicting the future was not the right approach but predicting prices instead.
-2017
Banned from everywhere except Betfair, start gambling like a fool and losing, had no taste for it at all so started looking into trading. Didnt gamble or trade for a full year until
-2018
Came back to trading but found I was getting too invested in what I was doing, so started looking at automation to get me away from the computer. Trialled an idea I tested in 2017 for a few months over the summer, late August decided to let it go in the wild with some money, with the goal being to get away from the computer screen totally so I didnt get sucked back in.
-Last couple of months
It didnt work, I was just earning more money to bet with, didnt care about depositing more in as I felt confident the automation would get it back for me, started viewing the money as being 'free'
-Started This thread
One particularly frustrating day I spent a few hundred betting on all sorts of rubbish, decided to come and ask for help on how to stop seeing trading/automated profits as being 'free' money.

The reason I was concerned about it is its obviously a very dangerous mindset given my past, it was viewing money as being 'free' that was the problem, I had already stopped the full on degenerate and life ruining gambling in 2015.

The topic does say Overcoming Gambling Addiction but the first line in the opening post is
"Gambling with money made trading, tell me how to stop this please, I need help!", the replies since have either been to the thread title or the opening line of the post, both with obviously different responses. It is an addiction but isnt what people think it is, I think I shouldve just written less overall

"I'll either be- cool, I've made £40 in the past hours racing, I might aswell have a "free" go on some other sport or oh crap, I keep getting stopped and Ive lost some money, I'll just check again in an hour..... so I am betting winnings but accepting trading loses without feeling like I need to chase them"

Besides for now its a bit mute, the advice Ive had in this thread and elsewhere has helped, particularly the advice they give to poker players, theres mountains of material to help those guys out on youtube or forums. A big problem for otherwise profitable poker players is getting too loose when theyve had a good win and thinking theyre invincible, the advice they get on changing their mindset can be applied elsewhere and touch wood, its worked so far.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23409
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:52 am
Derek27 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:38 am
all we're saying is that particular chart you posted is meaningless.
I disagree. Though the numbers are irrelevant, charts are visual aides or else we would document everything in lists of numbers, I use it as a reminder of what not to do.

I could just as easily print off a betfair statement and pin that to my wall as a reminder of past stupid bets or trades (gamblers have a funny habit of not remembering certain things) but a more visual representation hits home.

This next chart doesnt have any gambling related info in it but its just as useful to keep in mind.
Image
A chart is useless unless it is based on meaningful data. You could post a chart of your height against your age as you were growing, but it's useless for trading purposes. Shaun has already explained why the earlier chart you posted is meaningless. I would say it's dream against reality!

What you posted in your last post isn't a chart but pictures. I'm afraid I don't see things from your perspective and can't see what's useful about a picture of money in flames, but that's just me. If it helps you then by all means, keep it on your bedroom wall.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23409
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:15 am
-Last couple of months
It didnt work, I was just earning more money to bet with, didnt care about depositing more in as I felt confident the automation would get it back for me, started viewing the money as being 'free'
-Started This thread
One particularly frustrating day I spent a few hundred betting on all sorts of rubbish, decided to come and ask for help on how to stop seeing trading/automated profits as being 'free' money.
It might help and clarify things if you can honestly answer this question.

IS GAMBLING A LEISURE ACTIVITY OR A SERIOUS QUEST TO MAKE MONEY?

If it's a leisure activity then you don't need help - just enjoy it as you're earning enough money to afford it.

However, I sense you're not enjoying it and getting frustrated with your betting because it's not going well, in which case it would be a serious attempt to make money.

All I can really say is that you haven't a cat in hells chance of making money betting if you're unable to stop betting on, as you put it, all sorts of rubbish, with no +ve. I'm a successful trader but it would only take one minute a month to blow a months profits, if I lost control of myself for 60 seconds!

You're struggling to get to grips with gambling and clearly putting in a lot of effort, keeping data and producing charts. What I'm struggling to understand is, why?

You're making enough money providing heating for factories and aircraft hangers, yet gambling successfully and making money from it is so important to you?
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23409
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:35 am
If youre losing on football but winning on racing, throwing in the towel completely would leave you better off than doing both but you'd be better off again if you just stopped wasting money on the football and concentrated on the racing.
But if I'm unable to stop myself from throwing away money on football, I'd be better off throwing in the towel and not betting at all.

People who struggle to green-up when trades go against them and let trades go in-play and take big risks have problems that can be overcome. I don't mean to sound harsh, but if I was unable to stop myself from impulsive betting on any sport without any reasoning, that would be a full stop to my trading career.
User avatar
wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3199
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

Just one point on the "spewy" bet. If it's small in relation to a bigger win, then it can serve a purpose.

If you just achieved +£1000 on automation/system-method, a £20 spewy bet can be served as a form of celebration of the recent win. I would probably try and make it worthwhile, eg: £20 acca on an outcome on 6 events. In that way, whatever the result (probably a loss), it can serve as another potential big win, or as long as some thought has gone into the bet, an understanding of how the bet lost.

Even chucking £20 at a lottery rollover could be satisfying, you know the likely outcome, but you never know...(that's not me by the way) ;)

lotto.PNG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
marketraisen
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 am

Derek27 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:18 am
IS GAMBLING A LEISURE ACTIVITY OR A SERIOUS QUEST TO MAKE MONEY?

If it's a leisure activity then you don't need help - just enjoy it as you're earning enough money to afford it.
Somebody else used this train of thought earlier, just because Im not planning on going full time with betting it doesnt mean I shouldnt try to get better at it or not care about losing money.

I played right back for my old college for 3 years, I never thought I was going to be a professional footballer but I still turned up for training every week and hated losing matches.

Not every golfer is trying to win the masters, you better believe theyre trying to be better golfers though, its all some of them think about.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23409
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:45 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:18 am
IS GAMBLING A LEISURE ACTIVITY OR A SERIOUS QUEST TO MAKE MONEY?

If it's a leisure activity then you don't need help - just enjoy it as you're earning enough money to afford it.
Somebody else used this train of thought earlier, just because Im not planning on going full time with betting it doesnt mean I shouldnt try to get better at it or not care about losing money.

I played right back for my old college for 3 years, I never thought I was going to be a professional footballer but I still turned up for training every week and hated losing matches.

Not every golfer is trying to win the masters, you better believe theyre trying to be better golfers though, its all some of them think about.
That wasn't a train of thought - it was a question which you haven't answered. You're asking for help but you won't even be clear about what you're trying to achieve!
marketraisen wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:23 pm
...whats the point of working hard to find an edge and win on the only platform that hasnt banned me, just to waste the profits on bets I've no +ve expectation of winning from. Theres other fun things to do with spare money.
How you spend, or waste, money earned or won trading has nothing to do with trading. But to answer your question, what's the point in making money just to waste it? - whether you realise it or not, by making money you have put yourself in a position to spend it however you choose, so there's absolutely nothing wrong at that stage. The question you should be asking is, how do you stop blowing it on bad bets with no +ve?
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

marketraisen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:45 pm


Somebody else used this train of thought earlier, just because Im not planning on going full time with betting it doesnt mean I shouldnt try to get better at it or not care about losing money.

I played right back for my old college for 3 years, I never thought I was going to be a professional footballer but I still turned up for training every week and hated losing matches.

Not every golfer is trying to win the masters, you better believe theyre trying to be better golfers though, its all some of them think about.
But I'd guess you were playing football/golf as a hobby and getting enjoyment from it, to win at gambling you really need to nullify that adrenaline kick you get from wins/losses as much as possible. You could obviously say you'll replace that rush by looking at a healthy winning balance but if that doesnt make any real difference to your income it won't be long before you revert back to getting your kicks from gambling.

At the end of the day your winnings are coming from your automation so if you're serious about it , it shouldn't be too hard for you to leave the betting going on in the background whilst you find another hobby to spend the winnings on. If you still cant stop yourself gambling then this forum probably isn't the place to be asking for help.
Post Reply

Return to “Trading Psychology”