Frustrating automation.

[Dallas]

Have a search for some of Crazyskiers posts, he started this thread some time ago after struggling for a long time
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11437

and has posted back numerous times on other threads to confirm he's still making consistent profits

[LinusP]

For the first 2 years, maybe 3 I was making 2k+ a month using purely BA automation, mixture of excel and rules so it’s certainly possible to be profitable. However as xitian has mentioned once you get to a certain level you will find people write there own code and for good reason

I am sure PeterLe will correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that he still uses BA on top of his own code (C# I think)

[jimibt]

LinusP is right that the biggest players will be automated API traders, but most of them (or probably all of them) won't be using BetAngel. They'll be using their own software. The biggest big players (winning 7, 8, 9 figures a year) will be syndicates (teams of developers). As a point of reference, Peter Webb said he won 6 figures last year.

Can you win consistent money with BetAngel Automation - sure. Will you be one of the bigger players - unlikely. But then the bigger players are BIG.

If you write your own software your ceiling of what you can potentially win will be higher, but then the entry requirements are obviously higher too.

Thanks for that. Food for thought. I , a number of years ago, had software developed for BF, by a silicon valley dev (and top pen tester/white hat hacker but that's another story) The new BF API came along and we weren't able to finalise for various reasons. It taught me a lot (I lacked trading knowledge at the time that hopefully I am now picking up on as well). TBF BA has come a long way in automation (IMHO) recently..especially with stored values. The combination with signals is quite powerful. Some evolution towards using OR conditions as well as tracking available amounts at various prices + mature selective-logging usage to file + less intensive processor/memory usage would go a long way to maturing the product in an automation sense. I could further my VBA or C# etc knowledge to do it myself more but I like the BA interface (clearly aimed more at manual traders --- and this is very evident in its history) and reliability + I work full time. Things like tennis and football trading are clearly as lot more viable now too. It is a good package -at face value. I am hoping the automation matures quickly. Personally, after trading 5k markets in 3 months and losing $300, even being profitable a little would be nice. I have worked out how to mitigate the issue I mentioned above re matched bets but it is a little clunky, so will see how I go. I would love to see someone -amateur like me- post here that automation has netted them profit (even a little) over 12 months using BA alone. the would dangle the carrot. Good luck all

i recently (as part of a shared project) took on the role of developing c# functionality off of the back end of BA. this works quite simply by using the BA->Excel integration as a conduit for the data. i created a data structure (not too dissimilar from the API-NG structure) to manage and maniplute this data. I was also able to factor in raising events from this c# dll back to excel, thus can use it as a strategy provider to do things that the BA rules alone don't yet cover. of course, having the excel layer could arguably add a few vital milliseconds delay in either direction but the benefits of having code that could be easily used against the native api or in this way adds a very attractive edge to continued development.

still early stages and is for me more a side project (i actually have an api account with BF, so could go that route easily. however, having a robust transaction engine in the shape of BA, literally saves months of dev on that front, thus we are using .net purely to analyse the data and chuck down events for excel to party on...

[mcgoo]

Thanks for the replies Dallas,Jimibt(blimey .. ) and LinusP. I see Crazyskier appears to be a manual trader but since I dabble manually that helps too. I have noticed how as my manual trading improves so does the automation which is interesting. Good to know re a cpl of grand a month automated LInusP-if only I am not the brightest but am pretty sure I am damn near the most tenacious . Hopefully that counts. Ironically my wife comes from a punting(very successfully) family.She is a real and rare maths genius too..but is too busy to look at trading markets. If I could sit her down for a few minutes I might make further headway ....................life................

[Euler]

There are a lot of Bet Angel users that have made automation work for them, it's easier than coding an app and all the stuff that goes with that. But it's inevitable that we lose people off the top end of our customer base as they then go on to explore more areas on their terms. But we accept that is part of our role in the market.

We will continue to push forward with more features and flexibility to give as many options to automate that we can while maintaining a controlled and stable environment.

I trade manually, automatically and semi-automatically using servants as that gives me the best range of opportunities available. There are benefits in each area depending on what you are trying to do.

A lot of the large syndicates operate in specific niches and the investment required to go against that isn't viable for most, so I'd suggest the market is fragmented into a number of niches that people occupy and compete in. Automation is an increasing contributor to the mix for me as it allows me to increase my scope and reach in the market. I think it's a natural progression.

[whimsies]

I am 95% automated, I find it is more fun than profit and make enough for coffee and a sandwich each day. Just keep plugging away I made my first bot as a variation of a Dallas bot. Also read through some of peterle old posts for ideas

[mcgoo]

I am 95% automated, I find it is more fun than profit and make enough for coffee and a sandwich each day. Just keep plugging away I made my first bot as a variation of a Dallas bot. Also read through some of peterle old posts for ideas

Thanks for the replies. I am getting a clearer picture now. 3 figures a month would do me. I have had weeks of success here and there but something always seems to change. My manual trading is still plagued by 2 things as far as I can see..1. FOMO and 2. Determining an entry point .I think they are related and affect each other. Both appear to be reflected in my automation but the odd technical glitch here and there really throws your focus.Hopefully I have got some sort of stability now and can focus on strategy.Thanks again

[ShaunWhite]

I am 95% automated, I find it is more fun than profit and make enough for coffee and a sandwich each day. Just keep plugging away I made my first bot as a variation of a Dallas bot. Also read through some of peterle old posts for ideas

Thanks for the replies. I am getting a clearer picture now. 3 figures a month would do me. I have had weeks of success here and there but something always seems to change. My manual trading is still plagued by 2 things as far as I can see..1. FOMO and 2. Determining an entry point .I think they are related and affect each other. Both appear to be reflected in my automation but the odd technical glitch here and there really throws your focus.Hopefully I have got some sort of stability now and can focus on strategy.Thanks again

Automation glitches are part and parcel of the game unfortunately...but over time they'll be a wash. How much time depends on whether you're exposed to the risk of even money winners or 500/1 losers.

I couldn't find a good example quickly but this is the chart from a strategy I played with.....that big dip/recovery almost looks like a footy CS market. A losing glitch....and then 130 markets later, a winning glitch.

This chart is a classic too of the first 40 or 50 looking great then.......grrrrrr

[mcgoo]

Interesting Shaun. You do really have to adopt a belt and braces approach when writing bots.
I had one bot that made $67 over 477 markets and then turned horribly. Not sure why. Grrrr indeed

[poklius]

This is one of my beauties that said fcuk it after 12k markets and 29k trades Greyhounds, fun little game...

[ShaunWhite]

At least when automation turns sour you don't have to go through a whole load of psychoanalysis to find out if the problem is you. Taking the primative meat-based robot out of the equation and leaving it to the silicon is quite liberating.

[spreadbetting]

Here's one of my bots from this week, worst part is I know where it went wrong and have been meaning to plug it for months

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[jimibt]

Here's one of my bots from this week, worst part is I know where it went wrong and have been meaning to plug it for months

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... a stich in time - lol

[Jukebox]

There's nothing like a flooded bedroom in December to remind you of the hole in the roof you meant to fix in August.

[ShaunWhite]

Here's one of my bots from this week, worst part is I know where it went wrong and have been meaning to plug it for months

We might disagree on politics (and so what if we do), but we share the same pains trying to make a living