EU Membership Referendum (Brexit)
- ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Yep, millions of lives lost, wars won and then outwitted at every turn since. I can't find much form that says we won't get mugged off in negotiations with China and the US. I obviously hope I'm wrong but we're on a 70 year losing streak and the squad looks as weak as usual.
Shaun, that is pretty much accepting every single obstacle and scare story put forward by the remain establishment as pure fact and as though it will cause the end of the world when it is anything but. These are all relatively short term issues that should be relatively easy to sort out. At the moment there are vested interests in making out these issues are impossible to sort out in trying to influence the shape of the future relationship. Once the basics are sorted and accepted the rest will very quickly fall into place.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:53 pmAs did everyone no doubt, the problem is that everyone voted for what they hoped for without knowing what was actually possible. The only certainty is that with only 52% wanting any sort of decoupling, the hardline leavers weren't the majority.
Anyone could see that there was never such a thing as a simple 'leave' and should see that there is no such thing as 'no deal'. Industry, medicines, energy security, food security, scientific research, defence, the air space, the land border etc etc etc and the 80% of national income which comes from the service sector, all require some sort of agreements to be in place, ie, deals. WTO is touted but apart from a few imports/exports it covers almost nothing.
Defence is currently nothing to do with the EU as it is governed by NATO agreements though the EU have have course announced the formation of an EU army since the referendum - something they denied would happen beforehand.
Air Space? Before the Iron Curtain fell Berlin was surrounded for 45 years by soviet controlled airspace. A more hostile regime to the West you could not find and yet they figured out a way to fly planes over each others territory both into Berlin and across the Soviet controlled Balkans en-route to the middle east etc. After the iron curtain fell all of those former Eastern Block countries figured out ways to share airspace agreements before they joined the EU. This is just a pure remain scare story. The EU aviation and tourist industry simply cannot afford to enter into an airspace war with the UK anymore than the UK aviation industry can afford it. Ryanair did a lot of posturing over this kind of stuff but recently announced an expansion down in Southend.
Services. I saw your post announcing that Lloyds of London were relocation to Brussels. Not really very accurate. They are actually moving 40 of 600 jobs in to Brussels in order to establish an EU base for selling insurance and financial services into the EU. The insurance underwriting will still remain in London. This is very much how things were before the 1992 Single Market established by Maastricht. Firms just opened a subsidiary in every place they needed to have an administrative base.
I accept that It may well be more difficult for UK nationals to work in the EU and vice versa depending on the agreement. Hopefully something sensible can be worked out there. That for me is the single biggest downside to Brexit.
I guess Hitler, Gadaffi, Saddam, Kim Jong Un and Assad would probably all have thought/think of themselves as being a benign dictator. I dont really see too many genuine benign dictatorships around the world these days. Sheikh Khalifa of the UAE is fairly benign I guess but I'm really struggling to think of another one. I'd rather take democracy thanks.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:53 pmDemocracy just puts power in the hands of the least well informed (not brexit, I mean things like economic policy). Most great civilisations weren't democracies, they were benign dictatorships and that includes the Greeks and the Romans who's idea of democracy was quite different to ours and was more akin to a House of Lords.
The great thing about the democratic process it ultimately keeps political leaders on their toes (though no hope for covert remainer May now) and mistakes can be rectified in due course at the next General Election. The great unwashed that you clearly consider unworthy of making democratic decisions can generally figure it out after the fact if a political wrong turn has been made. If things pan out as badly as you fear and we all manage to somehow survive the resulting famine, pestilence, power outages, medicine shortages, planes dropping out out of the sky, nuclear core meltdowns, wars and general breakdown of civilisation as we know it then maybe that will give you some hope for the possible future correction of what you consider to be a huge mistake. When all of those things dont happen post Brexit then I'm hopeful that more balanced views will finally return to concerned remainers like yourself.
- superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
The question was IN or OUT.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:53 pmThe only certainty is that with only 52% wanting any sort of decoupling, the hardline leavers weren't the majority.
Soft Brexits are just another version of IN, i.e. exactly what 52% didn't vote for. They are also a far stronger association with Europe than was ever envisaged, or mandated, when we joined the common market after the 1975 referendum.
Hard Brexit is just a term used by the media/establishment to portray leaving as some sort of extreme position, and as part of their strategy to overturn a democratic vote by any means necessary.
- BetScalper
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm
I found it funny what the Irish Prime Minister said.
He does realise that gas gets to the whole of Ireland via a pipe from the UK. Also the whole of Ireland is protected by sea and air via the Royal Navy and Royal Airforce by a standing agreement.
Next time he might want to keep his mouth shut....
He does realise that gas gets to the whole of Ireland via a pipe from the UK. Also the whole of Ireland is protected by sea and air via the Royal Navy and Royal Airforce by a standing agreement.
Next time he might want to keep his mouth shut....
yup, it's a complete and utter mess. normally can think of a witty analogy, but in this case the fun seems to have stopped!
May's exit date still on 1.8 odds for between now and december... i think that's pretty generous odds tbh: https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/p ... .125589838
[edit- 11:54] - alteady lost 3 ticks since this messge. i put a silly little flutter on at 1.79
[edit- 11:54] - alteady lost 3 ticks since this messge. i put a silly little flutter on at 1.79
I got matched at 4.00 yesterday!!jimibt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:50 amMay's exit date still on 1.8 odds for between now and december... i think that's pretty generous odds tbh: https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/p ... .125589838
[edit- 11:54] - alteady lost 3 ticks since this messge. i put a silly little flutter on at 1.79
Greened up at 1.79 this morning, but was very tempted to let it run