Adam Heathcote

The sport of kings.
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ShaunWhite
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This Adam story is pretty long in the tooth now. The strangest thing though is that there isn't a sequal, where's the new Adam??
Looking at the ability bell curve, there certainly seems to be enough on the left hand side, but the right hand side is a bit thin.

Peter's right in that the less baggage you arrive with then better. But where do you find young blood who are interested in gambling/trading, but at the same time haven't fallen into bad habits or been disillusioned and bankrupted by the ripoff bookies? I think Harry Findlay hit the nail on the head in his interview at the Matchbook conference, kids just don't have the opportunity to be exposed to the idea that gambling/trading can be a viable proposition. If they do have a gamble, they don't even get the chance to learn from the old fellas at the bookies/racecourse/dog track because the world's gone online.

What we're left with is a group of predominantly middle aged men, who have invariably had a lifetime of either being fanatical about the actual sport and/or a lifetime of reinforcing unfortunate psychological biases. Neither great springboards to success. That's an assumption rather than a known thing, but I'd guess Peter doesn't have many young, bright, blank canvasses, (with the requisite stable homelife, financial resourses etc etc) walking through the door.

The BetAngel Academy needs a youth development program :)
If Jamie Oliver can revolutionise school dinners, perhaps Peter can revolutionise maths lessons and show kids how to make a bob or two.
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ruthlessimon
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:16 pm
The strangest thing though is that there isn't a sequal, where's the new Adam??
I don't know much about Poker, but would a comparison to Chris Moneymaker be a valid one? Moneymaker revolutionised poker, by making Tom, Dick & Harry think "that could be me". Heathcote did the same (ish).

However

As far as I'm aware there will never be another "Moneymaker", because Poker has inherently changed (become far more difficult etc). Similarly, with Heathcote, I'm sure he was much more of a scalper, than a swinger (1, 2, 3 ticks) - & JollyGreen who actively worked alongside Adam - now despises the technique. Why would Dave despise the technique after working with some of the greatest scalpers of all time?
Korattt
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“where's the new Adam??”

.. I’m working on it
Last edited by Korattt on Tue May 01, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ruthlessimon
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Something happened to the quoting there ;)
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to75ne
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Emmson wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:02 pm
Euler wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:38 pm
Emmson wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 1:13 pm
Interesting how Adam places importance on Book % while Euler does not.
Book % has become much less relevant with XM and it's various varients.
I take that on board and after watching many recordings of last 10 mins of racing markets I can't find anything significant in what the book % is doing but more than one contributor to this thread seem to make out it's absolutely crucial, almost the holy grail.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8541&hilit=jollygreen+wom&start=30
that page and extract are from 2013, way before XM.

there was always 2 camps as regards to book% and its application and effectiveness.
Korattt
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wouldn’t take that much notice from Heathcote’s blog, times have significantly changed since then, I quizzed Dave Raybould about it a few months ago, Dave advised that Adam’s method wouldn’t cut it these days
Trader Pat
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Korattt wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 6:32 pm
wouldn’t take that much notice from Heathcote’s blog, times have significantly changed since then, I quizzed Dave Raybould about it a few months ago, Dave advised that Adam’s method wouldn’t cut it these days
I think theres a lot to learn for most of us from what Adam Heathcote achieved and to say he couldnt achieve the same now I think is being very unfair. I accept some aspects of the market may have changed but to get to the level he did shows that he could have adapted his style if need be.

To say times have changed may be true but putting aside his actual trading skills for a minute I for one would give a lot to have his trading mentality which must have been pretty epic to make the sums he did on such a consistent basis.

I can't comment on Dave Raybould because I dont know who that is but I think if AH was still trading now he'd be doing pretty well in the markets.
dt888
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Trader Pat wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 7:07 pm

I think theres a lot to learn for most of us from what Adam Heathcote achieved and to say he couldnt achieve the same now I think is being very unfair. I accept some aspects of the market may have changed but to get to the level he did shows that he could have adapted his style if need be.

To say times have changed may be true but putting aside his actual trading skills for a minute I for one would give a lot to have his trading mentality which must have been pretty epic to make the sums he did on such a consistent basis.

I can't comment on Dave Raybould because I dont know who that is but I think if AH was still trading now he'd be doing pretty well in the markets.
+1
Korattt
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apologies, what I mean’t was that it was deemed that the amounts that AH racked up would be difficult to achieve in the current markets due to lower liquidity these days along with lower amounts that you can get matched.
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ShaunWhite
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ruthlessimon wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:24 pm
As far as I'm aware there will never be another "Moneymaker", because Poker has inherently changed (become far more difficult etc).
It didn’t change after him, he was the change.

My take is that Chris Moneymaker could have been almost anyone. All the skill and finesse went out of the game replaced by ultra aggressive play and working small edges, borne out of the online game where the next game comes along in 5mins (or playing 32 simultaneous games like Elky). People played a more skillful game when the next action was a week and 200mls away.

They moan too about the rake these days but that's because they're churning money; parallels with modern gambling and perhaps trading there I think.

Players rarely stay at the top long these days, gone are the times of people earning 14 WSOP bracelets like Phil Helmuth.
Korattt
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it was only a few weeks ago I learned Dave Ulliott is no longer with us
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ShaunWhite
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Looking at his results, the noticeable difference between mere mortals and AH was the relentless pushing forward once he had full confidence in his edge. If a tenner worked he'd go 100 next week then 300, and maybe a grand the next month. Brutal compounding.

Youth helps, make and lose a million before you're 25 and it's no big deal. Find yourself on your arse at 55 and it's a different story, especially if you've ever had to do a 'proper' job and know how hard money is to come by.
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ShaunWhite
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Korattt wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 7:43 pm
it was only a few weeks ago I learned Dave Ulliott is no longer with us
That's a shame. Proper hard living rock and roll poker player.
Rip Devilfish.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obitu ... tuary.html
Bluesky
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Trader Pat wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 7:07 pm
To say times have changed may be true but putting aside his actual trading skills for a minute I for one would give a lot to have his trading mentality which must have been pretty epic to make the sums he did on such a consistent basis.
I am sure if he was still trading then he could still make a lot of money, I would be surprised if he could make the kinds of sums he used to though or at the consistency he used to achieve. If I remember correctly he went on a run of something like 80 or 90 consecutive races where he was profitable on every one. An amazing display of skill, I don't know of any pro discretionary pre off horse racing trader who could match that kind of result in todays markets.

I am certain though that as the markets have changed he would have changed with them and although I have not heard it directly from him, I have heard rumours that he still does some trading and does fairly well.
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Mr Undercover
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it's a shame but Adam appears to have taken down his blog, although of it's time it was a good diary of the life of a successful trader.

For those who are skeptical i think Adam's experience was fairly typical of the journey many have been through to learn this level of skill... the take away for me was the precision and discipline of his execution which we can all learn from.
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