Offset Bet Matching Nonsense

[Frogmella]

So I placed, in-running, a back bet with an offset lay. (Back to Lay)

The back bet was placed into the market but not matched at all, no FoK. However the offset lay WAS placed into the market anyway and was matched entirely while the original back bet was still waiting. Of course, the bugger won, and I lost.

Why would the offset be placed before confirmation that the original bet has been successfully matched?

[jimibt]

this can happen when you place an offset trade without the fill/kill option enabled (both in automation and in the global settings). Just double check that you have this set and this issue shouldn't re-occur.

[xtrader16]

Dont get me started on this. The second part of the bet should not even be activated until the first side either Back or Lay is matched. Otherwise it is not an 'offset' strategy it is a 'Market Maker' Strategy. As the previous post says it can be resolved by ticking the FIll or Kill box but this only raises other issues. Fill or Kill should only work if a bet the has be placed but not matched but remains active in the martket until - Example - The Fill/Kill box is ticked for 5 seconds. After 5 seconds if the bet is not filled its killed. This should be its only purpose but for some reason it is also attached to the offset/Market Maker. A few weeks ago I looked to lay a horse that I thought was jumping poorly. I placed 3 x £50 bets into the market that went unmatched by 1 tick as the market had moved. The horse fell at the same time and I got 3 X £50 back bets matched at 1000. This should not of been possible. It would never of happend with other software and IMHO is a software flaw. Offset should only activate the second part of the trade AFTER the first has been matched either partialy or fully. Otherwise all you are doing is MARKET MAKER and I didnt want to do that. Rant Over.

[to75ne]

would never of happend with other software and IMHO is a software flaw. Offset should only activate the second part of the trade AFTER the .

then use the other software.

[Dallas]

Not sure how its a flaw when its gives you three different options/ways to submit trades and personally I do use and need all three (make market, offsetting & offsetting with fill/kill). The 'make maket' only places bets at the existing reverse prices regardless if their is no gap or a 50 tick gap.

I'll use offsetting (fill/kill unticked) with gap filling strategies, other times times I only want the opening bet matched before the offset is placed so will enable the fill/kill to do this.
http://www.betangel.com/forum/viewtopic ... 47&t=11817

[ShaunWhite]

So are you saying that if Fill/Kill is enabled it definately won't place the offset until the bet has been matched?
If I set the Fill/Kill time to 600 seconds it will still work as you say? ie, how it should.

I'm confused why it bahaves as it does without it being set. Is there a reason, or is it a bug?

[rostov]

To me this is one of the most irritating things about Bet Angel.

An offset bet and a fill or kill bet are two different bets.

Having to enable fill or kill to place an offset bet is nonsensical.

[Dipstick]

I concur with the ranters. I had tried doing the lay/offset approach as well and spotted the software glitch. I thought that there was something wrong in my global settings but couldn't work out what.

It works OK pre-in play though !!

Dallas - surely you guys can fix this

D

[Dallas]

I concur with the ranters. I had tried doing the lay/offset approach as well and spotted the software glitch. I thought that there was something wrong in my global settings but couldn't work out what.

It works OK pre-in play though !!

Dallas - surely you guys can fix this

D

There isn't a glitch its something that's always been like that intentionally to give users the flexibility of having their offsets placed in one of two ways rather than forcing everyone to only have it placed after the opening bet is matched. It doesn't matter whether you use it pre or in-play, manual or automation it always works the same;

fill/kill ticked - offset placed after opening bet is matched/starts to be matched
fill/kill unticked - offset placed at same time as opening bet

I've actually just had a quick check this morning and more of my automation strategies require the offset bet be placed at the same time so I wouldn't want to see it go.

[megarain]

Totally agree its absolute bollox.

It forces me to use other software, for 40% of my cricket trading.

People who disagree, with respect, dont understand this style of trading.

[weemac]

It caused me intense frustration too for some time, until I learned to make everything FoK, which seemed non-intuitive as a base methodology for an offset bet. How would anyone intuitively know that the way to place an offset bet after your original bet gets matched is to have a time limit on the original bet? So what must you do if if you simply don't want any time limit on it? Answer: put an incredibly long time limit on it!

Giving the methods different names and removing the necessity to FoK the original bet would solve the confusion, imo.

[Euler]

Must have missed something, as I don't understand the problem?

If you reverse the book you offer a bet to the market which you can then use fill or kill to offset to a profitable position. Or if you don't have fill or kill on the bet just sits there until matched with no offset, you can put that in manually. If you don't reverse the book it offsets immediately if you take out the current price. I thought it was all very straightforward?

We were the very first bit of software to implement it, so I've never looked at others and just assumed they copied out implementation. Struggling to understand what people are doing, what they are trying to achieve and what's wrong. If somebody can spell it out, I'd be grateful.

[weemac]

I was talking about Guardian, where you're forced to use FoK to automatically offset after your first bet's matched. I don't use BA for my manual trading.

[Dallas]

I was talking about Guardian, where you're forced to use FoK to automatically offset after your first bet's matched. I don't use BA for my manual trading.

It works the same using either automation or manual. Their is currently two ways of offsetting (at the time of placing your opening bet and after open bet matches/start matching). I can only think of 4 possible options and for reasons stated on the previous page I don't see any problems the way it is, I certainly don't want to remove anything nor add any additional tick boxes/text so I would stay with option 4

Option 1
Offsetting after opening bet starts matching by default
Offsetting at same time as opening bet placement by tick box
and tick fill/kill just for fill kill

Option 2
Do away with offsetting at same time of opening bet and (which would mean the end for quiet a few strategies) and force all offsets to be placed after opening bet match only and without the need for fill/kill

Option 3
In the drop down box add addition options like
Offset bet
Offset bet after matching
Offset bet with stop
Offset bet after matching with stop
etc etc

Option 4
leave as it is

[weemac]

Dallas, I think the first line of your Option 1 as you describe it is what many, or perhaps most, users expect to happen already. The fact that it's currently necessary to use FoK even if you don't want to, and wouldn't logically expect to have to use it, is the source of the frustration for many. At least it was/is for me. So as I see it, the best solution is a default whereby offsetting only starts after the initial bet's starting to match. If users really want FoK, then they can utilise it as an add-on.

But Option 3 looks good too.