How many tradable horse racing markets in a typical day?

The sport of kings.
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Frogmella
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Location: Towcester

As I've posted elsewher I've been at this for 6 months with no profit.

I think a part of this is that I have been concentrating on automation which means being active in almost every market. I do have rules that limit participation by field size or distance or an odds-on favourite. Anyway, I have found all attempts to automate horse racing markets lose money over time.

I am looking now to pre-race manual trading and once again the temptation is to try and trade every single market, I know this MUST be wrong and will inevitably draw me into unsuitable markets which is where the losses are waiting for me. Yesterday I traded almost all markets, I won 4 out of 5 but still ended up in a negative position. Overtrading.

Can any experienced (successful) pre-race traders tell me what proportion of a typical day's race card is actually tradeable? is it 25%, 10%? Or what?

Thanks in advance.
Jukebox
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A good starting place would be to keep records and see what you have the most success with.
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to75ne
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Most UK races are tradeable if the volume is there and the off times are not clashing.
welshboy06
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I'm sure I've seen Euler write something like... For every market there's a strategy and every strategy a market?
I'm still very new to this, but I'd agree that most markets with volume are tradeable. Just don't go looking to do the same thing for each one... I'm probably guilty for this myself, not being diverse enough and able to see the opportunities to execute a specific strategy
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Frogmella
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Thanks for trying to help guys but I really want to hear from experienced, successful traders. I already know everything about being unsuccessful, I'm the world's expert on it (might even start a YouTube channel).

As I understand it, there are a couple of main ways to trade pre-off, scalping and swing-trading. I am quite sue you can attempt to scalp the lot but its a lot of work for little return and a good deal of risk.

What about swing trades? How many markets provide decent opportunities per day? Anyone?
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ShaunWhite
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Frogmella wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:59 pm
I am quite sue you can attempt to scalp the lot but its a lot of work for little return and a good deal of risk.

What about swing trades? How many markets provide decent opportunities per day? Anyone?
I can't say that I consciously approach a race and say this is a scalp market or this is a swing market, it's about reading what you're seeing really. That said I'd steer clear of low volatility markets for either technique to start with, especially scalping. I might be corrected but I'd say there's a lot more markets you can swing trade than there are ones you can scalp.

I posted a betfair chart the other day on here that had been perfect scalping material for about 5 minutes...then suddenly the price rushed of in a beautiful swing.

Bear in mind also that I suspect most trades most people do are sort of in between a scalp and a swing. More than just a tic or two but not sitting there for 5 minutes expecting a price to continue moving large amounts in your direction.

You mention a high degree of risk on the scalping vs the returns....but that's not really the case. If you're scalping you need to be like lightening closing out your losses, you can't really tollerate noise like you would with a swing trade otherwise as you say, the downside will outweigh the upside.
scribbles
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Frogmella wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:59 pm
Thanks for trying to help guys but I really want to hear from experienced, successful traders. I already know everything about being unsuccessful, I'm the world's expert on it (might even start a YouTube channel).

As I understand it, there are a couple of main ways to trade pre-off, scalping and swing-trading. I am quite sue you can attempt to scalp the lot but its a lot of work for little return and a good deal of risk.

What about swing trades? How many markets provide decent opportunities per day? Anyone?
Your receiving loads of good advice across various threads but seem to be ignoring it all in search of the silver bullet answer.
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Euler
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About 50% of races are range bound and exhibit no (true) directional bias. So if your strategy is this or vice versa then you eliminate half the days card on average.

But the solution to this is to come up with a strategy to address it.
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Frogmella
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 2:44 pm
Location: Towcester

scribbles wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:26 pm
Frogmella wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:59 pm
Thanks for trying to help guys but I really want to hear from experienced, successful traders. I already know everything about being unsuccessful, I'm the world's expert on it (might even start a YouTube channel).

As I understand it, there are a couple of main ways to trade pre-off, scalping and swing-trading. I am quite sue you can attempt to scalp the lot but its a lot of work for little return and a good deal of risk.

What about swing trades? How many markets provide decent opportunities per day? Anyone?
Your receiving loads of good advice across various threads but seem to be ignoring it all in search of the silver bullet answer.
Nonsense.
cybernet69

One strategy I use in-running is.......

- BTL the favourite if the LTP < (Lay Price - 15 ticks)
- LTB the favourite if the LTP > (Back Price + 15 ticks)

Goodluck,
CaptainMak
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:53 pm

welshboy06 wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:49 pm
I'm sure I've seen Euler write something like... For every market there's a strategy and every strategy a market?
I'm still very new to this, but I'd agree that most markets with volume are tradeable. Just don't go looking to do the same thing for each one... I'm probably guilty for this myself, not being diverse enough and able to see the opportunities to execute a specific strategy
100% agree with the above, I think its about being diverse like you said as its amazing how many time you can feel trapped in a trade and think someone is watching over your shoulder, feel like i should write a book about it ! :D, as it can also feel like there is a wiff of corruption in the air when it goes against you the amount of times that it can.. always seems to be when the liability is high is when you will you get stung?

I can lay a horse at random, 9/10 times the price will come in and make me panic slightly.
cybernet69

CaptainMak wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:55 pm
welshboy06 wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:49 pm
I'm sure I've seen Euler write something like... For every market there's a strategy and every strategy a market?
I'm still very new to this, but I'd agree that most markets with volume are tradeable. Just don't go looking to do the same thing for each one... I'm probably guilty for this myself, not being diverse enough and able to see the opportunities to execute a specific strategy
100% agree with the above, I think its about being diverse like you said as its amazing how many time you can feel trapped in a trade and think someone is watching over your shoulder, feel like i should write a book about it ! :D, as it can also feel like there is a wiff of corruption in the air when it goes against you the amount of times that it can.. always seems to be when the liability is high is when you will you get stung?

I can lay a horse at random, 9/10 times the price will come in and make me panic slightly.
That is probably bots leveling their books. Just need to wait until the on-course bookies money starts coming in and go with the flow. :D
Ralphyboy
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:55 pm

Euler wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:06 pm
About 50% of races are range bound and exhibit no (true) directional bias. So if your strategy is this or vice versa then you eliminate half the days card on average.

But the solution to this is to come up with a strategy to address it.
Can you be specific about how you would characterize if a market falls into a range bound category peter?

what signals would be prevalent to characterize a range bound bound market this would be very helpful in learning to trade the markets more accurately.

Kind regards.
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